I cant remember how often this word has come up for me since joining that stepper cult! I noticed that it was often used against me to try to force me to do the steps, coz I wasnt that keen a member to do homework! Hell, I was never a homework person! Must be my slothness lol? Anyway, it was often preached to me by other members who pointed to the steps on the wall that we do the steps for accountability! None of any of what they said made sense to me because the people I knew who had supposedly done the steps certainly had no accountability whatsoever!

New Study published in the Journal of American Medicine Assoc. (JAMA) discovers trend that 12 Step (AA/NA) has more relapse than other options.

Relative Efficacy of Mindfulness-Based Relapse Prevention, Standard Relapse Prevention, and Treatment as Usual for Substance Use DisordersA Randomized Clinical Trial

Original Investigation | March 19, 2014
JAMA Psychiatry. Published online March 19, 2014. doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2013.4546

International Day of Happiness - 20 March

"Happiness may have different meanings for different people. But we can all agree that it means working to end conflict, poverty and other unfortunate conditions in which so many of our fellow human beings live."


The top five happiest nations in the world are:

Which Nation is to blame for those meaningless slogans Stepper true -believers just love to regurgitate at every opportunity?

80% (4 votes)
0% (0 votes)
0% (0 votes)
0% (0 votes)
0% (0 votes)
Other Nation, please comment
20% (1 vote)
Total votes: 5

You say AA saved your life.

At what cost.

You say "AA has saved millions".

"surely would have died without it".. right?.. that is what you say, right?

At what cost.

Some rough estimates;

You say millions, but not how many. So let's go with the membership AA claims.


We know that at the very best, AA has a failure rate of around 70%, that is AAs failure rate, 70%.

2,000,000 * 70% = 1400000.0

AA has killed at least 1,400,000 people.

'I'm having trouble looking you in the eye' the story of John Leonard MacKean, 64 who abducted a 16 yr old boy in Nova Scotia, Lunenburg County, Canada AA General Service Area 82

John Leonard MacKean's DNA found on chained boy, bed
WARNING: This story contains explicit details of a sexual nature

CBC News Posted: Mar 19, 2014 7:06 AM AT

A jury in the trial of a man charged with sexually assaulting a teenaged boy at a rural Nova Scotia cabin has heard the accused's DNA was found on both the chained boy and the bed to which he was chained.

Faith Healing

Could someone post this on CL for me?

Title; Faith Healing.

pondering the power of natural remission

since natural remission is the most effective way adddicts stop substance "abuse", and the majority generally "quit" eventually, with out making a "stated goal" of stopping (as programs always do) - I suggest we should stop pushing anything on addicts and trust the natural remission process. because initially most addicts can't imagine quiting. but slowly they can build self undertsanding and find support that matches their individual needs and then their own healthy choices can make progress naturally. which i suggest is the subtle power behind natural remission.

Principles before Personalities

This is one of those AA slogans adapted from the traditions! I have heard it over and over many meetings, outside of meetings and even had it directed at me! It intrigues me as to what this actually means as there are many times this has been misinterpreted to mean whatever suits the occasion.

The Definition of Insanity

The definition of insanity…

Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

If You've tried AA over and over again, and You're not getting the results you were promised, maybe it's time You tried something else.

Think about it.

Why some paid counsellors of the Treatment Sector and some alternative networks demand censorship of any criticism of AA?

The 12 Steps are Gods message of salvation to mankind and are absolutely beyond any human criticism
0% (0 votes)
AA has saved the sanity and lives of millions of people blah! blah! blah! and is absolutely beyond any criticism whatsoever
0% (0 votes)
Both 1 & 2 above
0% (0 votes)
Statistics have shown that AA actually does NOT work as a cure for alcohol abuse other than the 3-5% same as no treatment at all
0% (0 votes)
AA is just a lying fear mongering cult based copied from Oxford Group doctrine
0% (0 votes)
AA is full of control freaks and sexual predators
0% (0 votes)
AA is full of very screwed up individuals, exhibiting mental turmoil and anxiety
0% (0 votes)
The incidence of suicide is very high amongst AA members
0% (0 votes)
4 to 8 above
100% (2 votes)
Other reasons for this censorship of criticism of AA, please comment
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 2

How would you describe the Stepper Cult?

Gods message of salvation to mankind, brought to us by His servants Bill Wilson and Doctor Bob Smith
0% (0 votes)
A self -help group, full of totally beyond reproach individuals, which has saved the lives and sanity of millions of people
0% (0 votes)
A lying, fear-mongering, coercive, predatory, 1930's cult that uses deceptive recruiting techniques and thrives on censorship
75% (3 votes)
Other description, please elaborate in comments
25% (1 vote)
Total votes: 4

Is addiction real? Yes, but.....

Is addiction real? Yes, but..... Ok, so I’ve stated my case as to why I don’t buy into the “disease” argument with regards to “alcoholism” or as I prefer, alcohol/drug dependency.

When having this debate, many times the other person will say, “Ok, well if it’s not a disease, then it most definitely is an ADDICTION”

While addiction is real, I don’t care for the word because it also implies a state in which the person has no control over it. So, let’s take a look at what constitutes this much misunderstood word.

Sunday Night is Music Night

Livin' On A Prayer

Censorship by religion

Alive and well on the Internet, you know the place where people go that is 'open to share ideas'.

Weak case indeed, when you must rely on brute force and mob rule.

I suppose I should take a page out of JR's book, and start making use of the wayback machine.

hams critic limited to the simple plans and 17 elements pgs

read and discuss amongst your selves
i'm feeling a little vehklemt
hams celebrates every positive individual imaginable success
no 13th step
have to work at that
some people ain't happy unless people are covered in cloaks
pass the hams opinions critics

Addiction Treatment With a Dark Side

The comments on this article are quite interesting.


Addiction Treatment With a Dark Side

In Demand in Clinics and on the Street, ‘Bupe’ Can Be a Savior or a Menace

After two years of buprenorphine treatment, Shawn Schneider has rebounded from a self-destructive addiction to painkillers.Leslye Davis/The New York Times


NOVEMBER 16, 2013 ----------- 379 COMMENTS

"The Sober Truth: Debunking the Bad Science Behind 12-Step Programs and the Rehab Industry" by Lance and Zachary Dodes ISBN-10: 0807033154 ISBN-13: 978-0807033159

Hardcover: 192 pages
Publisher: Beacon Press (March 25, 2014)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0807033154
ISBN-13: 978-0807033159

An exposé of Alcoholics Anonymous, twelve-step programs, and the rehab industry—and how a failed addiction-treatment model came to dominate America

Step 1 of AA

The doctrine that you are "powerless over alcohol" is also a ready-made excuse for drunken binges, the morning after — "Honey, it isn't my fault that I got drunk last night and went on a huge binge and threw a screaming drunken temper tantrum and tore up the house. Dr. ‘Silkworth’ says that I have a disease, and I'm powerless over alcohol, so I can't help it

The Wilson House (the birth place of Bill Wilson) in East Dorset, Vermont is in the news again. This time for theft of $930 from the donation box on Thursday March 13, 2014

Vermont police look into missing donation money

Mar. 14, 2014 10:23 AM

EAST DORSET — Vermont police say about $930 went missing from a donation box at the Wilson House in East Dorset.

According to its website, the Wilson House is the birthplace of the co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous and was restored as a memorial to the co-founder and serves as a retreat for people recovering from substance abuse as well as a guest house.


Suggesting that other people should be suspicious of their health care providers is as irresponsible as the shit that goes on within AA. If you want to play doctor, perhaps you should do it somewhere else.

What constitutes 'personal attacks on others'?

If someone lies, and you call them a liar, is that a personal attack?

How about if someone is stupid, and you tell them they are stupid, is that a personal attack?

If someone is assaulting the forum and it's members daily with all manner of bile, lies, pyschological abuse, but no "foul language", is that a personal attack?

If you tell the person in the last examle, "fuck you" (Read: piss off, get lost, go away, ..), is that a personal attack?

Inquiring minds want to know.

A case of eternal uniqueness?!

When I first came to an AA meeting, I heard people share their stories and had quite mixed feelings about it all. My head was clouded, I wasn't in any condition to fully take much in as I was withdrawing from the effects of alcohol addiction. Experiencing extreme levels of anxiety, lack of sleep, bad dreams etc, I ended up with my butt firmly planted on a chair just listening to people drone on about their drinking history.

defaulting to smart to replace aa is not so smart

especially when 75% of all people with substance abuse issues learn to moderate. and smart not only does not allow anger toward aa as official smart policy - but anger toward anything is seen as a flawed emotion. tom horvath is a twit. hams is more open minded yet its still amateur hour. when i recommend help o recommend comprehensive therapy or nothing.

Addressing one of Bill Wilson's Lies in the big book: the Lie about the 25-year previously-abstinent guy who drank himself to death in 4 years.

Addressing one of Bill Wilson's Lies in the big book: the Lie about the 25-year previously-abstinent guy who drank himself to death in 4 years (bb, 32-3).

Remebering Florance Rankin

Goodbye Florance R.
We all remember who you are
You tried so hard to deprogram
And now you're shining like a star
You did all of your stepwork
And they stole your Victory story
They put you in their Big Book
And they took your inventory

And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a stepper on the fringe
Never knowing how to pull back
When you're on a binge
And you would have liked to moderate
But it was such a sin
Your candle burned out long ago
Without a chance to win


Subscribe to RSS