Disease

Personally, I do not think alcoholism is a disease. Many people, including myself, have advanced this position by arguing how drinking involves a chain of voluntary choices such as going to the liquor store, buying booze, opening the bottle, and pouring it down the throat. However, although I don't believe alcoholism is a disease, I find this argument lacking. Take the analogy of scratching an itch. By most accounts, like lifting a glass to your mouth, moving your arm to the itch location, and proceeding to scratch are also a voluntary actions.

According to the Big Book...

The Big Book, AA's bible and user's manual, is full of miraculous claims based on faith healing. The chapter Into Action, starting on page 85, makes a case for the complete removal of the alcohol problem as if it didn't exist. All one has to do is make it to Step 10 and maintain a "fit spiritual condition." There are a few more requirements needed to bolster and maintain the promised state of grace, all of which involve asking God for favors. Daily devotions are an additional activity one must perform to deserve such favored treatment.

Stepper Cult (or OPF ) Joke

What's the difference between the Stepper Cult and the OPF? Sometimes sadly ......not very much

A.A, Crime, and "Supermarkets"

As some individuals persist in stating the programs, meetings, etc., are safe, I'll begin by quoting from an "internal memo" written by an A.A. General Services Trustee:

Christian Criminals, crazies, conmen & Janus

I know I'm off me head, have been all my life but the fools that frequent this forum leave me for dead, why does this forum attract such a collection of lice is it because in effect their is no site managment??

The Heresy of the Twelve Steps - Idolatry (Part 3)

In the essay titled "The Heresy of the Twelve Steps", Orange says:

"...'having faith' in a Group Of Drunkards is really stupid. What am I supposed to believe? That they won't relapse and drink some more? That they have a special hotline to God and are really expert on spiritual matters? That I can trust them with my life and my soul?"

Question for Long-Term AA Participants

This question is just for those who no longer attend.

Those who still attend – well – there is no hope – just kidding!

Was there one thing that got you to stop attending – the straw that broke the camel’s back?

I am anxiously waiting for that to happen to someone I know in the program. I think it is on the horizon! (At the same time I do fear the aftermath.)

What do you most hate about the stepper cult?

Constant repeated drunkalogues
0% (0 votes)
Constant woffle about resentments, character defects etc
0% (0 votes)
Constant fear-mongering threats of jails institutions or death in you leave the cult
0% (0 votes)
Abundance of control freaks
33% (1 vote)
Abundance of sexual predators
0% (0 votes)
Steppers total disregard for the wellbeing of the cults victims
67% (2 votes)
Other, I know there is much much more to loath about the stepper cult
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 3

Debating the efficacy of AA and its 12 Steps with a stepper is like watching a squirrel trying to cross the road, by Rolf Ankermann

Back and forth, yes and no, should I stay or should I go, around and round I go.

They change their minds and their stories every second and it all depends on which way the wind is blowing.

If you show them through logic that the Steps have no efficacy whatsoever towards helping people overcome their dependencies, they’ll tell you; “Oh, it’s really the meetings that do that. You know meeting makers make it.”

After almost 90 years, researchers are still finding problems at the Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys in Marianna, Florida. You can run, but 90 years later people are still looking.

Did Florida boys school officials send family a casket filled with wood?

By Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN
October 10, 2014 -- Updated 0124 GMT (0924 HKT)

(CNN) -- For almost 90 years, the casket lay beneath the earth, Thomas Curry's family believing the teen who died too young rested in peace there, in an unmarked plot with his great-grandparents.

What is the best way to deprogram and expose the stepper cult?

What is the best way to deprogram? Is there a best way to deprogram or do different people respond to different methods of deprogramming? Some people call other peoples anti stepper cult posts as rants. I've often been accused of repetition. I can also make fun of ludicrous stepper fear-mongering doctrine. I've even been accused of having a resentment against the stepper cult. Some people still go to meetings.

On a lighter note - Fractured Fairy Tales - Ridinghoods Anonymous from the show Rocky and Bullwinkle (1961-1964)

Uploaded on Oct 6, 2010
a hilarious cartoon from the show Rocky and Bullwinkle (1961-1964) it's one in the series called Fractured Fairy Tales. basically it's a twist on the old story of Little Red Riding Hood. give it a chance, it's funny and not quite what you'd expect
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C4xH216IBo

The Heresy of the Twelve Steps - Idolatry (Part 2)

In the essay titled "The Heresy of the Twelve Steps", Orange quotes Bill Wilson who said, "You can, if you wish, make A.A. itself your 'higher power.' Here's a very large group who have solved their alcohol problem. In this respect they are certainly a power greater than you, who have not even come close to a solution. Surely you can have faith in them. Even this minimum of faith will be enough."

CANNIBALISM IN AA et al 12

Here I am struggling to do my daily last 2 techniques and great idea to waste waste time.Catholicism-CANNIBALISM. Eat me.Here Jesu's BLOOD drink some here's Jesu's BODY EAT SOME=CANNIBALISM does this seem strange sTragne to anyone besides me.Today is end of 3 months of Buddhist mediation season when monks do not travel to new temples but focus on doing whatever style of mediation is their form . sitting here it hit me.Damned Catholics are CANNIBALS yet noone notices. COMMUNION -now usually there's not much about the Cat-hole-lick church I laughabout

CANNIBALISM IN AA et al 12

Here I am struggling to do my daily last 2 techniques and great idea to waste waste time.Catholicism-CANNIBALISM. Eat me.Here Jesu's BLOOD drink some here's Jesu's BODY EAT SOME=CANNIBALISM does this seem strange sTragne to anyone besides me.Today is end of 3 months of Buddhist mediation season when monks do not travel to new temples but focus on doing whatever style of mediation is their form . sitting here it hit me.Damned Catholics are CANNIBALS yet noone notices. COMMUNION -now usually there's not much about the Cat-hole-lick church I laughabout

Normality?

Janus states that 'Meetings were meant to lead to normality rather than become some kind of alternative universe.' How can attendance at the stepper cult and being bombarded with Oxford Group induced indoctrination possibly lead to normality?

one size does not fit all? ....yet behaviour disorder is only correct? wow!

amazing how some people say that one size does not fit all but then they argue and demand only behavior disorder is a valid diagnosis or condition. gheez . that is seriously blind biased.

they say people do not take responsibility for a disease diagnosis. but people with cancer often take responsibility. and if they don't that is not the diagnosis's fault.

they say people are stigmatized by a disease diagnosis that is not the diagnosis's fault. it social prejudice. attack that.

Thoughts of AA

So anyway I have been exposed to "The Program" on and off at times in my life. I have found some of the people there very kind and helpful. My use of AA has been Cafeteria Style. As first introduced by the book "Living Sober". I take what works for me. My life experience has taught me to have boundaries. To rely on a Sponsor and share every thought is counter to what I see as common sense. Sponsorship may be helpful to some newcomers. The problem is this relationship has been exploited and turned into a tool of control by AA lifers.

Still Mad - Ha Ha

I thought I wasn't going to come back here, and here I am. Why can't I get over this? My husband is out of AA and it's over. He is way more involved in taking care of the kids and the house and he even has a potential job lined up. Yet I'm still stewing about things. One of the things that I'm still mad about is that except for one friend, everyone I tried to turn to for help about this just thought I was crazy and that I should be happy that my husband was going to AA to take care of his problems. No one was sympathetic.

Why was AA's success rate supposed to be greater in the begining?

God was more 'all powerful' in the 1930's
25% (1 vote)
The BB is typed on different paper now
0% (0 votes)
They had different doorknobs and bedpans in the 1930's
0% (0 votes)
Those 12 steps were just as ineffective then as now
75% (3 votes)
Total votes: 4

The Heresy of the Twelve Steps - Idolatry (Part 1)

In the essay titled "The Heresy of the Twelve Steps", Orange says this, "Possibly the greatest heresy in the A.A. dogma is this bit of idolatry: In the Alcoholics Anonymous program, you can use anything for your 'God' or 'Higher Power'." Well, not only is it possibly the greatest heresy, it IS the greatest heresy. There is a reason that the first commandment is first, which says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Idolatry (i.e. having other gods) is breaking this top priority commandment.

Describe God According to AA Doctrine

Well... He is obviously a man. He's invisible. You have to trust him in order for him to work on your behalf. He is the father of light, which is a biblical reference.

Static Thinking

Observing the contributors to the OPF, including myself, it is striking how easily people settle on an opinion and decide that it must be some kind of fixed 'truth'. Not only do people become attached to their opinions, they also become attached to their interpretations of how they perceive the world to be.

Unless you keep on challenging your thinking and keep pushing yourself to open up your mind to new concepts/opinions/interpretations, you are at risk of mentally stagnating.

What is the most commonly used stepper cult contradiction?

I would have to go for , "take what you want and leave the rest." Except that you have to believe EVERYTHING that the stepper cult promoters tell you, or its Jails. institutions or Death for you. 'Think' has got to be another common stepper cult contradiction. I would call the steppers many things, liars, fear-mongers' or predators immediately springs to mind, but thinkers?........no. Brainwashed zombies....yes. Come on readers, there's the usual prize of two free tickets to the stepper cult meeting of your choice (you don't have to put any money in the hat) for the best entry.

Hostage holding at A.A. by oldtimer!

I've been going on and off, more off to A.A. where I live, mostly cause I like some of the people and some of the sharing that doesn't relate to alcohol. I have a diagnosed mood disorder and am on medication that has made my self-medicating with alcohol pretty much stop. I was never much of a big drinker anyway and if I drank a bottle of wine in a night it was cause my disorder was acting up, not cause I was an alcoholic with a "disease". I went on the request of my doctor who knows nothing about the program and was shocked when I "enlightened" him on some of the going's on.

A Public Appeal To Orange

PLEASE don’t make us all suffer through the misery of allowing “The New Reincarnation of JimBabble (a/k/a ‘Jerry’) to go on.

PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE. I beg you. I believe we ALL beg you.

Please bring this misery to a prompt end and don’t let this ranting, raving, babbling lunatic have another turn at trying to destroy this forum.

Please end it now. PLEASE.

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