Still Don't Get It - Janus? Someone Else?

How does believing that you are powerless help you stop using abusing alcohol or another substance? How does believomg that there is a power greater than yourself help you stop abusing a substance? How does listing your character defects, confessing to someone and making amends help you stop abusing a substance? I'm not being perverse. I just do not get it. It someone explains it, it almost makes sense, and then when I think about it myself I completely lose it.

Assimilation and intellignce

Two weeks ago I posited the following theory, which I'd like to discuss more:

Suggested prayers for AA funerals

Here's a link with prayers for AA funerals. Note the special prayer for cases of suicide:

Newcomers stumble into a twelve-step meeting, weeping and crying, as they choke out their story past their sobs. And finally someone in the group says quietly, “Welcome home.”

Is Mariuana a addictve plant?

Is Mariuana a addictive plant or is the addictive substance placed there by those who sells the plant on the streets? Soberman

Must Read: Erin's Story. The Devil of AA

Must Read: Erin's Story. The Devil of AA.

I stumbled onto a story about a girl named Erin just a bit ago. I came across it in the weirdest way; while looking for the an old Alcoholics Anonymous pamphlet (1950's) titled the Devil in AA.

That's why I've added a byline to "Erin's Story" ...."The Devil of AA"

Sultans of Step

Sultans of Step
by Liar Baits:

You get a liver with a scar
Or drive drunk in your car but meantime
Down in the basement you stop and you hold everything
A clan is blowing Billshit double for an hour
You feel alright when you hear a higher power

Well, now you step inside but you don't see too many faces
Coming in out of rain to hear the chants go down
Logical thought in other places
Oh, but the drones, they're blowing that sound
Way on downtown, way on downtown Stepper town

Self Loathig, the Programs very big on that one

I was originally going to post this blog on the UK Forum, but I consider it of monumental importance to the growing Anti Stepper Movement in general, whatever nation they live in and whatever their other personal beliefs. For some time I have followed Peter Barlow's struggles with the booze on the premier British Soap, Coronation Street.

Why do we reach out for help?

I guess we are all different but I suspect that most people seek help getting clean or sober is because of the negative ways their addiction affects them. That's why I did. Initially I set out for a medical, or assisted, detox. It was there and in the next few weeks that I learned that I wouldn't be able to get by without involved treatment, ie a lifetime of 12 step participation. That info was shoved at me with 'tag for my toe' attached, just in case I didn't agree to do it (It is by fear and intimidation that it works!).

Will Hank Skinner ever be executed for murdering women he met at AA?

AMARILLO (June 7, 2014) State and defense attorneys have filed briefs with a judge who will decide the fate of Texas death row inmate Hank Skinner, 52, who came within 20 minutes of execution in 2010.


IMO, fear and fear alone is what keeps most steppers coming back to the rooms day after day.

If not for the instilled fear of jails, institutions, or death. AA's numbers would dwindle.

Denial is a river in Egypt, by Rolf Ankermann

No it’s not, the Nile is a river in Africa you morons!

AA totally takes the meaning of denial and twists it to serve its purposes. Before we take a look at their evil use of the word,
let’s take a look at how normal people apply it in the recovery conversation.

Worshiping Boniface

I ask, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE!? Very creepy:

Very disturbing documentary.

Be careful it could cause night mares. What do you think?

Methadonia - YouTube

Alcohol Problem?

Just go to AA, turn your life and will over to God, and everything will be okay.

It's not a cult! I swear!

Here are the 12 steps you must follow otherwise your only options are jails, institutions, or death...

Simply, but smilingly, he said, "I've got religion." - Big Book "Bill's Story" , p.9

"So that was it -- last summer an alcoholic crackpot; now, I suspected, a little cracked about religion. " - BB Bill's Story, p.9

"We, who have traveled this dubious path, beg you to lay aside prejudice, even against organized religion." - BB We Agnostics, p.49

" Though we have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained by an established religion." - BB Into Action, p.74

What is the first step to freedom from alcoholism?

I like this, I read it every day. Do I need to admit to myself that something is seriously wrong in my life? “Yes” Do I need to admit to myself that I have created messes in my life? ‘Yes” Is my whole life a mess, or maybe just important parts are a mess? “Yes” Can I admit this to myself? “Yes” Can I stop playing the game alcoholic? “Yes” Can I realize that my life has become unmanageable in many ways? “Yes” Do I continue to do things that I later regret doing and tell myself that I will not do them again, but I do? “Yes”

Don't Complain Because You Can't Order Steak At A Vegetarian Restaurant

The longer I spend on the OPF the clearer the confusion in some peoples' minds about what the purpose of the 12 Step Program is becomes.

yes you can do drugs at aa and say you are sober.... cuz bill w did,

you can do drugs at aa and say you are sober. people argue about it - whatever - still the fact is you can do drugs at aa and say you are sober - what? how? why? well if you read the AA pamphlet "drugs other than alcohol" literally it says other drugs may may may effect effect effect your sobriety. ok do you see that. its does not say you slipped. it say it may cough effect cough your sobriety cough! just hold that in a minute. and many still do drugs in aa saying they are sober and many of them are just real dishonest folks. skin popping sharing about serenity.

Thoughts on this

reminds me of the seven dwarves arguing cigarettes are not addictive?

the seven dwarfs arguing that cigarettes are not addictive.....they had "research articles" too.
but paid billions in the end.
the symptoms are self evident to me.
but people are different
some don't get addicted
to sum up
substance dependency does exist.
whether it does for you or not
is the only question.
so chill out with the argument that substance dependency disease does not exist .

Self-Efficacy/Agency/Feeling in Control

I took Psych 101 years and years and years ago and I was taught that there were studies that showed that the more people felt they were in control of their lives, the happier they were and the more effective they were. Even when the people studied, objectively, had very little control over their lives. On the other hand, studies also showed that when people left helpless they became unhappy and ineffective. Now why is "powerlessness" supposed to be good for helping you quit drinking (or doing any other compulsive behavior)? Doesn't this go against what we know about human psychology?

Oh really .... "AA can help young adults, but mechanisms unclear" - What do you think?

AA can help young adults, but mechanisms unclear

Krystnell Storr, Reuters
Posted: Monday, August 25, 2014, 10:08 AM

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Alcoholics Anonymous can help people, young and old, recover from drinking problems, but young adults seem to benefit mainly - and only - from certain aspects of the program, according to a small U.S. study.

The results may help to better tailor AA for a new generation, researchers say, and help young adults feel more comfortable in the heart of the program, the group meetings.

Alcoholism: A disease of speculation

I found this article to be very informative and thought others may also. Those of you who believe alcoholism is a disease may not agree.

reducing harm and escaping the nightmare..

its simply become less of a problem,and more of a joy i dont get in the states i used too i never harm,abuse or piss off other people and the big blackouts dont happen,events get a bit hazy toward the end of the night but the days of raging around doing all sorts of things and not remembering are gone im harmless and fall asleep long before i can consume enough alcohol to cause problems so im happy with this scenario,the circumstances of my life allow it no dependants no significant other looking on,wishing things were different happy working life,i teach others my trade and thats a buzz.

Excluding Drop Out From Your Treatment Group

I am a public health student and it makes me upset when I hear people in A.A. say that people who don't work the program shouldn't be included in the control group of a study. That's not how scientific studies work that compare a treatment group with a control group. Let's say your cancer treatment does work, but it is so heinous you can't make people stick with the protocol long enough to get to the cure... Let's say that 95% drop out because they can't do the treatment, but the 5% who stay in get cured of cancer.

Hazelden Meditation for the Day

More brilliance from the esteemed medical professionals at the world's flagship treatment center:

imo most "anti or non aas" have a individual unique conversion experience

in a general sense whether acknowledged or not most "anti or non aas" for lack of a better demographic name , who recover from a substance dependency, have had some sort of individual unique conversion experience of their own, that resulted in them managing substance dependency. either by quitting or harm reduction.

in my opinion, the main problem many non or anti aas experience with aa, occurs because the individual unique conversion experience is made into or perceived as a dogmatic pedagogical experience that stifles or damages individuality and uniqueness.

Never understood "Sponsorship"

Hi everybody,

More AA Propaganda: Check it out but beware, Stepper spouting and slogans galore. Bring a barf bag..

I briefly read through the text on this website which is promoting and seeking monetary support for a new film in the making.

It is clearly an advertisement for AA and 12 Step Recovery (religious dogma) which is also against the traditions of AA (that are broken regularly).

Hazelden is providing materials to package along with this film will be made available to public schools, Universities, Community Colleges, Prisons and Military Installations.

The intent of this film is to INFORM


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