If you are capable of being honest with yourself...

Gunthar2000's picture
Submitted by Gunthar2000 on Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:28

You'll know that AA is a bunch of bullshit.

Comments

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:36

I am capable of being honest with both myself and with you, Gunthar. It was very helpful for me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:41

You've never seen the 13th stepping problem?
You've never seen the anti medication problem?
You've never seen the brainwashing problem?
You've never seen the relapse problem?
You've never seen the suicide problem?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:50

Yes, and I stated what I did about it, only to be told by all ADULT parties involved - nunya.

I read the literature so it never would have been a problem for me because I wouldn't take the word of a non-medical professional telling me. But even if I was told, it woul be up to me to make that decision. I do not know sponsors that thell their sponsees to not take appropriate meds for their conditions that are overseen by a doctor.
I don't see brainwashing, no. I am not brainwashed.
I do see a relapse problem across the board in recovery. it isn't limited to any one program.
I have not see a suicide "problem". I have seen people commit suicide in my church, place of work, school, and two in AA. Nothing stands out as having more than anything else.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:53

So... We're just making this shit up?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 13:57

It must be a conspiracy theory, or maybe just the truth is starting to be published against AAWS and AAGSO directives from the Interchurch.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 14:01

Be careful, JR. Massive is on record at RFR.com with that she thinks I am a spy for those branches...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 14:30

Danny's modus operandi is to go there under and assumed name and start saying stuff about you to suck you into that controversy. You have seen your future and your welcome to it.

Have you gotten your Fornits Login yet? Welcome to the ride Danny has put you on.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 23:34

Did anyone notice that most of the people shown as "backers" of the project seems to have gorged on lemons before their photos were taken? What's that all about? Sour pusses? Trying not to lie through their teeth? What?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 14:01

Gunthar, I have never said that, just that my experience was different.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 15:10

Do you have this kind of controversy in the rooms of AA? You seem to be very knowledgeable about these controversies and the slogans and falsehoods of the Bill Wilson faith to protect the stream of newcomers into the narcissistic attitudes of AA. If you haven't experienced them in AA, why do you want to come here and experience them? If you are truly joyous, wonderful and free you will go back to the rooms and online forums of AA instead of spending your time here...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 15:25

I can make my own choices, JR.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 15:32

It is becoming more and more obvious that you want to leave the joyous, wonderful and free AA meetings where you claim these things don't happen and come here to engage in controversy. If things like this don't happen in your AA meetings, why are you coming here to engage in them? Clara, your online persona is being heavily tarnished by hanging out with the more narcissistic members of AA that come here to get an EGO fix. It is not too late to change your destiny, just disassociate from those that go online to stalk survivors of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. It isn't too late.....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 15:42

JR, I just read all the advice you had for the guy on RFR.com who has left AA but his wife is staying in Alanon, and I think you are pretty good at twisting people around. Of course, I knew you were always redoing my posts so that they no longer resembled what I originally said, but I had no clue it was called gaslighting. I learn so much from you all that I'll go when that process stops.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 15:52

I see you are still trolling the internet for information. Did you ever think that you should be working on your recovery Clara? Once you enter the dark side with Danny and his online stalking experience, it's over and you will always be identified as an online stalker. In Rehab, they often ask you to write how other people view you. Do you really want to be known as the Orange papers Forum stalker who was warned that she was making a fool out of herself, her friends and her fellowship?

Have you gotten your Fornits login yet?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:17

It is a free forum, JR. People can read what they want. I wonder how people might view you.

No, I don't think I will be going to Fornits for any reason. People with handles such as "glistening pussy" aren't really folks I need to spend much time with...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:35

Humility Clara, you don't have it and your EGO is showing. You can't be working a good program at all with your incessant taking of other peoples inventories against Interchurch directives and you are failing down the slippery slope. Where is your humility and honesty? You obvious bragging about stalking people on the internet is starting to degrade you morally.

As for Fornits, don't worry about posting there, that is Danny's domain and I am sure he has already been posting heavily about you. Welcome to the troll world of Danny B, I hope for your sake you at least enjoy the ride even if it is morally corrupting your recovery.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:45

No one is stalking anyone, JR.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:51

No one is stalking you.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:52

Not now, anyway. No one is being stalked when invites are posted all over the OPF about RFR.com.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:54

Congratulations.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 20:33

Curious if you found my signature an invite for the RfR? It does say, for those disgruntled with AA.....In case that was what you are referring to, that’s not a posted invite for trolls to come over to join or lurk.

After that, it appears that you are the most prevalent RfR advertiser because you talk of it a lot. Otherwise, where are all of the invites “posted all over the OPF”, as you claim?

Of course people will sound human there, it’s troll free. It’s not a debate site and it’s not a floor mat for character assaults from AA apologists.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:12

Fuck off with your shit, why you bringing up RFR all the time??? You have really pissed me off. I have seen your snidiness, you need help and meds

Clara's picture

Clara

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:18

I don't seem to care much about your opinion, Vicky. If it weren't for RFR and the the filters that MCF insists on, people that are unbelievable here come off as human. Some of it is nice to see.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:21

You are always on here, you stalk people and then you lie your fucking face off. YOU Low lie bitch

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:15

If your so resentful bout what people have one to you here piss off you slag

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:23

If AA is soooo wonderful why come here???? You ugly bitch

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:16

You associate yourself with a pedophile rapist. Your fucking whore

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:47

Aren't you? LOL!

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:26

You only been in AA for 5 years do your still a newcomer really, you know jack shit

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:38

Gunthar2000 says: "You've never seen ...." Nope.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:40

"I saw a peanut stand, heard a rubber band,
I saw a needle that winked its eye.
But I think I will have seen everything
When I see an elephant fly.

I saw a front porch swing, heard a diamond ring,
I saw a polka-dot railroad tie.
But I think I will have seen everything
when I see an elephant fly.

I seen a clothes horse, he r'ar up and buck
And they tell me that a man made a vegetable truck
I didn't see that, I only heard
But just to be sociable I'll take your word

I heard a fireside chat, I saw a baseball bat
And I just laughed till I thought I'd die
But I'd be done see'n about everything
when I see an elephant fly."

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:43

I see you are adding your act to the show. Nice to know the fellowship of AA is sending their best trolls for the job!

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:51

Hey JR Harris, you're welcome to chant "Jerry, Jerry, Jerry" from the boo-bird seats.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 19:43

"Someone told me long ago
There's a calm before the storm,
I know
It's been comin for some time.

When it's over, so they say,
It'll rain a sunny day,
I know
Shinin down like water.

I want to know, have you ever seen the rain
I want to know, have you ever seen the rain
Comin down on a sunny day.

Yesterday, and days before,
Sun is cold and rain is hard,
I know
Been that way for all my time.

'Til forever, on it goes
Through the circle, fast and slow,
I know
It can't stop, I wonder.

I want to know, have you ever seen the rain
I want to know, have you ever seen the rain
Comin down on a sunny day."

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:18

Lisa Marie you can go fuck yourself, you filthy lying loser

Bucket123

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 16:19

By Lisa Marie becket and fucking Clara piss me off.......

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 22:50

Ah, finally: the real Bucket stands up - himself, his bastard son (2) and his red-headed stepchild (3). Welcome. Your rancor is not unexpected, nor is your flaming ignorance. You will stand in for btnben rather nicely. Now, sir, is the time to get that unimpressive vocabulary of a half-dozen profanities working so they just burn this place down. Wait till Orange gets a look at you!

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Free

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 17:03

I'm sure I'm not the only anti that has an issue with women being referred to as bitches, slags, ugly, whores or filthy. The sexism of aa was incredibly oppressive for some of us. Does it need to be here?

Free

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 17:07

Found 2 very good texts about ways in which 12 step is particularly oppressive and counter-productive for women on Orange's reading list. It's worth checking out.

disclosure

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 20:04

-Impaired and damaged drinker arrives in AA

-Impaired person hears the phrase “capable of being honest with self” in repetitive chapter 5 readings.

-Incapacitated person is completely derailed by the ridiculous notion that they are self deceptive.

-The disease model is reinforced and the member goes to meetings several times a week so that they won’t “relapse”.

-Indoctrination complete.

-Next

billybudd

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 20:37

if you are capable ...
then you know well that you caring about you is no different than some 'higher power' supposedly caring about you, that 'friends' and 'family' pretending to care about you - when they only care about their caring about themselves in place of caring about you - is no different, that spending $1000 a minute getting wasted to the gills makes no difference, that die today or die tomorrow or maybe die the day after makes no stinking difference (except the fetid smell) ... if you are capable then you know you're whistling shit-dixie in this capability. Where's a parade to shit on? Oh, everyone's busy protesting when they should be marching?