Are you a 12 Step Supporter or Detractor?

Detractor-the 12 Steps are the most worthless ideas ever written into the English language.
93% (14 votes)
Supporter-the 12 Steps are the word of God as given to his prophet Bill W.
7% (1 vote)
Ambivalent-Not sure. Have not been coerced to attend enough meetings to decide.
0% (0 votes)
Indifferent-Do the 12 Steps go up or down?
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 15

Comments

Since this forum's "membership" has exploded to the point where each topic entry has a jillion posts under it, I am adding yet another poll (that you are free to ignore or vote in as you wish!), that will hopefully get people to identify on which side of the "12 Step, etc. debate" they REALLY ARE ON!

12 extremists with no where else to go- a real membership explosion.

If voting against the 12 Steps makes me an "extremist", then I better get that label (something 12 Steppers LOVE to give!), tattooed on my forehead! I need to "upgrade" my anti-12-Step activism off of here anyway!

marietta davis's picture

Let me know where you take your brilliant insight. I want to document it.

massive's picture

I once loved AA. But that was a long time ago. I am an ex stepper and Im proud of it! I dont like AA at all or any stepper cult or stepper group think.

I'm embarrassed I was in AA for so long.

Massive

Ya missed an option. I just wanna carry the msg to the stepper who's still suffering. Ya may have noticed, much as they hate the dont drink (& dare I say it, do as you please) program the one they dislike even more is the take responsibility for your self & get a real job program. Hiding behind god & the staircase is no differant to hiding behind drugs & alcohol. Ya wanna come good, it's simple, ya just step into the real word & get on with it.

Brett

Persephone In Exile's picture

I was thinking of the Join Or Die flag combined with the Gadsden. Snake in 12 pieces with "Don't Step On Me" as the motto. Or is that too co-opted by the tea baggers already?

live_free_or_die's picture

The most worthless words written into the English language is my vote, especially considering that AA let the copyrights lapse.

However, the words a worth something in the German and Spanish languages apparently, since AA allowed foreign AA members to be sued for giving the good book away for free. I believe these foreign members were also fined and jailed for trying to help drunkards in Germany and Mexico.

How strange is that?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

marietta davis's picture

The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous has been in the public domain in the United States since 1967. I would think that would make you happy, as that would mean the AAWS has not been "lining their coffers" with royalty monies gathered in the U.S. for the last 44 years. Royalty law may be different in other countries.

Which side are you people on, anyway?

Not all of the steps are inherently bad.... But I think they're all dangerously misguided if seen in their true context. Step 3 for instance is on the right track until the "as we understood him" part.

IMHO a lot of good can come from working a few of the steps but I just don't see the point. As a person who has a conscience and is not a sociopath, most of the good in the "program" comes naturally.

They say that the only step you have to work perfectly every day is 1. For me personally, the only step I have to completely unwork is 1.

marietta davis's picture

There are those who would argue that "as we understood Him" is not the beginning of "problematic"; in fact, some would go so far as to say that any mention of God leads folks down the wrong track.

The program participant has a choice to disregard that which is offensive or which differs intellectually with what s/he believes, just as the participant has the choice to not drink again. Isn't this the general tone within the Orange Papers Forum - that one need not get mixed up in religion or dogma, that one can simply put the rig or the bottle down and carry on as if nothing happened?

So where's the problem? That ridiculous First Amendment claim after the fact of committing a crime, say a DUI or a PI or battery as a result of intoxication or child endangerment as a result of shooting dope? Seems most of you here believe the biggest crime is getting caught.

Pennywise's picture

The claims are not ridiculous. They have merit. The government can't force a person to participate in religious activity, regardless of any crime the person may have committed. The courts have agreed with this, multiple times.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

"There are those who would argue that "as we understood Him" is not the beginning of "problematic""

Yes.... and I'm one of them. The BIGGEST problem is the fact that NONE of the steps mention anything about NOT DRINKING! Not one of them tell ya to "Knock it the fuck off!" And speaking of FACTS..... the ONLY requirement for membership is simply a "desire" to stop drinking.
I hate this line from AA "So.... how's that working out for ya"? Much can be said with the AA membership "requirement" as well. "Members" go out and get shitfaced over and over and over again.... they "keep coming back" with the EXCUSE "well, I had the DESIRE to not get shitfaced". And all of the "oldtimers" (most of them who are totally lying about their "time") tell 'em "it's OK... keep coming back".

JR Harris's picture

Alcoholics Anonymous is quickly becoming the unofficial cult of the US Judiciary. The poor,weak and criminal minds are being funneled into the church basements of society by one of the fastest current day Spiritual, not Religious groups in the US. According to a survey conducted by the City University of New York, Wicca is now the fastest growing religion in the US, followed by the Society of Friends (aka Quakers), since Alcoholics Anonymous is not considered a religion except by the panel of three US Judges of the Inouye vs. Kemna, 06-15474, 9th Circuit Court decision of Sept. 7, 2007 which is covered by the states of Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington, Alcoholics Anonymous was not included in this study.

The courts and judiciary of both the United States of America and Australia routinely mandate AA attendance to coerce prospects of Alcoholics Anonymous into the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous being run on a local and global scale at the Interchurch Center on 475 Riverside Drive on the 10th and 11th floor.

You might as well be sentencing the criminals of your country to the rooms of Wicca, which is a Higher Power allowed by the members of Alcoholics Anonymous holding their meetings in Church basements all over the world. Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc has access to the "Treasure Room" at the lobby of the Interchurch Center and it would only be fitting if the Ouija Board of Bill Wilson from his "spook room" at Stepping Stones be proudly displayed there. Perhaps with some of the manuals, tools and chemicals that Wiccans use such as Deadly Nightshade more commonly known as Belladonna Atropa which Bill Wilson was under when he had the "White light" experience of the Belladonna Cure. Wiccans use this chemical all of the time in their rituals to find an out of body experience and the god of their choice.

http://www.interchurch-center.org/treasure_room.html

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

live_free_or_die's picture
live_free_or_die's picture
marietta davis's picture

You are clinically insane.

Spoken just like a True Believer™...... they're always giving medical advice without any proper medical credentials.

I think the individual should be able to decide for themselves after being exposed to both sides of the discussion.
In other words, I think AA is a deadly full of shit cult crock.

I put the "Ambivalence" category in this just to insure that those "who need more information" are given a vote also.

I don't think about Bill much although I did see the latest movie about him in the theater.