Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) or, How Heretics Shaped It. LOL

http://raptureready.com/soap/Lanagan4.html

How Heretics Shaped Alcoholics Anonymous

John Lanagan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You won’t ever hear this in an AA meeting, but many, many people have gotten sober without 12 Step spirituality.

When it comes to AA’s alleged “Christian” roots, God’s people have been—to use a technical term—snookered.

Scripture is clear. We were never meant to be part of an all-gods religion. It is not “legalism” to point out that the Lord will absolutely not be seen as one higher power among many. (Isaiah 42:8, Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17)

AA’s murky history can seem very confusing. Prolific pro-AA author Dick B. continues to present AA’s origin as Biblically rooted. But Alcoholics Anonymous is like a pie. One can claim it is made with lemon meringue ingredients, but if tar, rat poison, and glass shards are also in the mix, was it ever really a lemon meringue pie? A little leaven… (1 Corinthians 5:6)

AA’s origin must include AA co-founders Bill Wilson’s and Dr. Bob Smith’s Biblically forbidden spiritualism, Dr. Bob’s freemasonry, the meditative Silence/spirit communication learned from the Oxford Group,[1] and the anti-Biblical teachings of William James.

It doesn’t stop there. Many other influences helped give birth to AA, including Carl Jung, Emanuel Swedenborg, and the New Thought heresy of Emmet Fox.

Those who have heard early AA’s “roots” were Biblically pure might want to investigate Emmet Fox and AA’s use of his heretical book, The Sermon on the Mount. This text was actually used as a teaching manual in AA until AA’s own instructional Big Book was completed.

As pro-AA author Dick B. himself acknowledges, Fox’s “writings were favored by [AA co-founders] Bill W. and Dr. Bob.”[2] (Bold mine)

That is correct. And the AA co-founders could not have been Christians if they “favored” and used these writings in AA.

Why? In The Sermon on the Mount, Emmet Fox teaches: “The ‘Plan of Salvation’ which figured so prominently in the evangelical sermons and divinity books of a past generation is as completely unknown to the Bible as the Koran. There never was any such an arrangement in the universe, and the Bible does not teach it at all.”[3]

“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 10:33)

Fox’s book bristles with “teachings” that sincere Christians would not share with alcoholics.

Like the Gnostics, Fox was a purveyor of “secret knowledge.” He writes, “Wonderful as the ‘outer’ Bible is, it is far less than one percent of the ‘inner’ Bible—the Bible that is hidden behind the symbols. If you have been reading the Bible without the spiritual interpretation, you have not found the real message of the Bible, for that lies below the surface.”[4]

Fox’s influence should always be considered when one hears of references to the Bible in early AA. People assume, logically enough, that if the co-founders were mentioning the Word of God, this must mean they were Christians. But the unsaved Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob Smith viewed the Bible along the lines of Fox’s esoteric spiritual wisdom, rather than believing it to be the literal Word of God. One cannot, after all, promote anti-Biblical heresy and simultaneously believe and obey the Word of God.

And, like many in AA, they looked to the Bible for generic spiritual principles—love your neighbor, help your fellow man, and so on.

Interestingly, Bill Wilson had already been exposed to those who greatly admired the Bible, yet still didn’t believe it to be the Word of God. He married into a Swedenborgian family, and became very familiar with this religion’s Christ-rejecting interpretation of God’s Word.

Fox’s new thought teachings likely strengthened what Bill already believed—the Bible was indeed a book of spiritual wisdom, although not the inerrant Holy Book of the fundamentalist Christians.

It is important to understand Fox’s book was not some casual read by early AA. According to author Mel B., Fox’s “1934 book The Sermon on the Mount became one of the society’s most useful guides until the publication of Alcoholics Anonymous in 1939.”[5]

New Thought adherents believe that Jesus was just a man who tapped into the source of Divine Power, and that we too can accomplish this. According to Fox, man has “essential Divine Self-hood.” [6]

Since Dr. Bob Smith has been portrayed for years as a Biblical Christian, just how strongly, then, did Dr. Bob oppose Fox’s heretical book? He didn’t. He recommended it.

According to a woman quoted in AA’s official biography of Dr. Bob, “The first thing [Dr. Bob] did was get me Emmet Fox’s The Sermon on the Mount.”[7] (Bold mine)

That seems pretty enthusiastic. What else was in this book Dr. Bob was so eager to share? This book that Bill Wilson claimed was so important to AA? Well, as it turns out, more heretical stuff. According to Fox’s Sermon on the Mount:

pg. 124: “[In] the Bible the term ‘Christ’ is not identical with Jesus, the individual. It is a technical term which may be briefly defined as the Absolute Spiritual Truth about anything.”

pg. 3: “The plain fact is that Jesus taught no theology whatever.”

pg. 3: “There is absolutely no system of theology found in the Bible; it simply is not there.”

pg.13: Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden “was never intended by its author to be taken as history, but literal-minded people did so take it, with all sorts of absurd consequences.”

Imagine a hurting alcoholic, a man or woman who does not know Christ. Now, imagine an AA member as prestigious as Bill or Dr. Bob saying that this CHRIST-DENYING book will help.

“You may, as I did for quite some time, fail to appreciate or study the effect on AA ‘theology’ of the ideas of William James, Ralph Waldo Trine, Emmet Fox, and others,” writes Dick B.[8](Bold mine)

Indeed. Even after conceding this, Dick B.’s books promoting the Biblical roots of AA and the 12 Steps have just kept coming.

Yet I alerted this author about Dr. Bob’s promotion of the Emmet Fox book back in August of 2002. I stated:

“Dick, there is no way a Bible believing Christian would recommend such a book. No more than you or I would place the Muslim Holy Book in the hands of a hurting alcoholic. …If early AA was solely Christian, why was Fox’s book used? Was not early AA syncretistic?”[9]

Fox felt “helpful teaching” was fine wherever one got it, but “You do not owe an atom of loyalty to anyone or anything in the universe except your own Indwelling Christ, your own personal integrity.”[10] (Bold mine)

There is simply no way to justify promotion of this Christ-denying book. It means thousands of alcoholics were encouraged to read a new thought teaching that states there is no Plan of Salvation and that Christ is not Savior.

“For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all…” (1 Timothy 2:5)

When reading about the use of the Bible in the history and development of AA, please consider the influence of Emmet Fox’s new thought heresy.

Okay, you sigh, so what is the big whopping deal over ancient history? Well, with people churning out books that portray the origin of AA as this wonderful Biblical occurrence, and Christians being deceived by these books, it is time to get the record straight.

Finally.

For more on AA: http://www.mywordlikefire.wordpress.com

Endnotes:

1. See: 1). Alcoholics Anonymous and Contemplative Spirituality and 2). Meditating Upon AA

2. Alcoholics Anonymous History and the Bible: Dick B.’s Early AA Resources

3. Emmet Fox, The Sermon on the Mount, pg. 4-5

4. Herman Wolhorn, Emmet Fox’s Golden Keys To Successful Living, pg. 59

5. Mel B., New Wine, pg.111

6. Emmet Fox, The Sermon on the Mount, pg. 124

7. Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., Dr. Bob and the good oldtimers, pg. 310

8. The Oxford Group and Alcoholics Anonymous: Part 2, Dick B.

9. Dick B. email August, 2002

10. Emmet Fox, The Sermon on the Mount, pg. 149

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It seems that the concept of "higher power" is a problem for some chrsitians.

That is ok, becaue MyNotGodHasItCovered®

Comments

live_free_or_die's picture

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

Heresy is dangerous? Because we all share differing opinions we are all then heretics. Where's the danger?

Emmett Fox dangerous? Pfft. Anyone can interpret biblical stories any way they want to. Indeed, that is precisely what the New Testament Gospels are all about. Oh, but throw in The Gospel According to Thomas or to Mary Magdalene and you can see how the marketing wizards of the day wanted to shut them up.

It's all nuts. All of it. To think that you would use Matthew to solidify your case is hilarious.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

judge becket says: "It's all nuts. All of it. To think that you would use Matthew to solidify your case is hilarious."

First things first. These are the words of a christian who says AA is a heretical organization. Apparently christians have a problem with 1.5 million gods™ being worshiped. Bwahahahahaha.

Second, change a few words spoken by the judge and we have a succinct description of AA/12 steps.

It's all nuts. All of it. To think that you would use 12 steps to TREAT your case of "disease" is HILARIOUS.

Thanks for your contribution Father bucket. Definitely a Kodak moment, again.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

avogadno's picture

Back to a previous blog discussion. Is AA religious or a religion...and can the answer to this be found within the pre Big Book teaches of AA through educational studies of Fox and AA’s use The Sermon on the Mount? I know this isn't exactly topic related but threads often get derailed. This is important. AA too often gets misrepresented by offering words such as spiritual (not religious), higher power, and choice to help explain it. With the help of all three of these redefined words or in at least one case, a lie (err, perhaps misleading), AA has gotten away with fooling society as being nothing more than a self help group for alcoholism. Let's not forget that it isn't successful, another wrong notion and that it can be harmful in many ways, a fact that gets buried.

http://www.mywordlikefire.wordpress.com deserves another mention and can help explain more non Christian AA relationship. For some atheists or bedpan believers, it may contain too many strong religious components. Just a warning :-)

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

alkieanon's picture

If not Bill Wilson, Bob Smith, William James, Carl Jung, Emanuel Swedenborg, Ralph Waldo Trine, or Emmet Fox, then it must be John Lanagan. Or is he speaking for himself?

http://www.createdgay.com/whospeaks.html

live_free_or_die's picture

That would be St. Boniface alkie. The 7th century Boniface that is. Oh, and that is A.D., not B.C. I think. LOL.

For confirmation of this, please see >> http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/1983

As a reminder, this St. Boniface saint is the one that helped billyw write the 12&12, even though this St. Boniface had been dead for more than 10 centuries. Wow!

And there was some inner AA circle dispute about how christian the big book writings should be. You see alkie, the original manuscript was written to be in a christian context, but some early AA'ers (1939ish) had a problem with that. It was finally decided that the use of god™ had to be replaced.

Enter the higher power and into action the heretics ran!

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

Are you and Pennywise true believers of Saint Boniface? Are you channeling and hearing Winfrid now?

live_free_or_die's picture

alkie, are u a true believer in billyw™?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

live_free_or_die, are you a true believer of Saint Boniface? You talk about him all the time. Did Winfrid tell you that he talked to Bill W?

alkieanon's picture

First-Things-First says: "The cult like mentality here [on Orange Papers Forum] is more severe than any other ongoing circumstance I've ever experienced."

"Consider how we normally seek to assuage worries about the future: we seek reassurance, looking to persuade ourselves that everything will be all right in the end."

http://psychotherapy.tumblr.com/post/26929553384/happiness-is-a-glass-ha...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/15/happiness-is-being-a-...

live_free_or_die's picture

alkie

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

If 94.99% of people who left are "happy, joyous, and free", then curious about the remaining .01% who seem to be stuck.

live_free_or_die's picture

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

alkieanon's picture

avogadno's picture

We talk of it being religious because the history, practices found in meetings, and the literature make it so.

FtF you say it's here in the OP. Well, that's because we don't just take some of the history and leave the rest, we put it all out there. We also discuss the various undeniable religious practices that occur in meetings. This and what is discussed in meetings as modes of recovery "principles", such as turning our will over to God, praying (with suggested prayers for each step), exercises in guilt confession. All religious practices.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

live_free_or_die's picture

First-Things-First

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 01:07

Permalink
Seriously?
Avo, of course A.A. is a religion. It's so because you guys make it so in your own mind. To many it's a place to help with sobriety, end of story. Sure many go to extremes, it unfortunately is the human condition, people can take it too far. Like for example, OPF.

You guys talk about cult, religion and fanaticism but, I don't have to go far in this forum to see stuff like LFOD's little rant above. How many biblical scripture quotes? Cult? Religion? Fanaticism? YES!!!! But it's here in OPF.

The more I see, the more I see a group of people behaving and being the supposed entity they're so against. Taken to extreme, and say you all are correct about A.A. . . . what have you escaped? The cult like mentality here is more severe than any other ongoing circumstance I've ever experienced. You could say, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

Good luck with all this boys.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Anyone can steer the ship when the sea is calm."

-Publilius

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Clara's picture

I don't get the nonsense that people in the rooms don't know that people can and do get sober without the 12 steps. They just know what worked for themselves because they had tried that, too.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

AA is full of deception and nonsense. AA true believers can and will say anything because they believe it. AA text ambiguity, context, emotion, beliefs, and the mission form God labeled “spiritual” create an environment where literally anything can become the truth at any moment for the sake of the perceived collateral good.

LisaMarie's picture

It's a freaking conspiracy, Disclosure, 2 million people running wild, with the power of Zeus.

avogadno's picture

In the past you said that if they were there, they have already made up their mind and how steps aren’t needed shouldn't be discussed. This isn’t something a new person decides but what the book and pressure gurus do for them. Steps are a must and Clara, you just say one thing and do another. You switch products after they are paid for.

You don't want people to talk of how the 12 steps aren't needed and it doesn’t happen. It’s billonely. Say one thing but do another. It’s standard in groups and in the literature.

Orange himself wrote for over 10 years about his thoughts and research. AA is a cult was the result and he despises it. Yet you tried a pre sponsor tactic used just to get him to attempt it. You initiated a 12 step call. Absolutely no respect. You didn’t say it was what you knew worked for you. You told Orange it could help him get the icky-ness out of his life. Some steppers stop at nothing. Now, imagine a newcomer that isn't Orange. They are in their first meeting surrounded by 9 Clara's saying that it will help get the ickiness out of their life, keep them sober, get closer to their HP. Then the huggy lovey dovey starts. Steppers apply more pressure than a vice.

Now you're saying "it's nonsense", they know that people can and do get sober without step-work.
I call you on your bullshit. It’s a lie.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

It is not. There are plenty of people that get sober without the steps. Those are often people that don't even come to AA. But I do agree with such things as working through your past, removing ick where can. If people want to argue in part that people self medicate for "reasons", couldn't a response be to work through them? Doesn't matter to me if it is through AA or a shrink or pastor

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

What the flying fuck was this supposed to mean!?! LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Persephone In Exile's picture

AA/NA doesn't help you work through your issues unless you're willing to admit everything was your fault, but paradoxically due to a disease that isn't your fault--unless being spiritually deficient is also your fault, in which case it's all your fault. That's not help with working through issues, it's just continuing a cycle of blame. In my humble opinion. In any case, and I've heard plenty of others say this here and on other forums, frequently people are told in xA that those issues that are the most integral to the substance abuse are outside, peripheral issues. Or even worse, people are told that they must focus on the substance abuse and attend meetings first for a period of 6 mos. to a year before even thinking about working on trauma issues. Again, that's not working through issues. If you are told you must put all of these things on hold to "work the steps", and the steps focus entirely on getting you to submit to the will of a deity/higher power, then what they're saying is to find God. That's what it eventually all boils down to. Which is fine if you believe that a religious experience is the best medicine or even healing in any degree, but otherwise it's gross negligence.

Clara's picture

Perhaps your sponsor felt that way, but mine doesn't.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Clara, I don't remember entirely, but your sponsor worked in the mental health field, correct? He/she was qualified to talk about and work through these types of issues? That would make a huge difference. Most people don't get anyone trained in this field when entering a 12 step group. Actually, many of us get the opposite, people who are supposedly trained in psychology and counseling but in their work only promote 12 step programs and let that override their education and job description.

Clara's picture

PIE, he is a criminal attorney. I don't think you necessarily have to be a mental health professional to be able to help people.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

My mistake, I just remember you once saying that there were quite a few mental health professionals in your old group. I do agree, you don't have to be, but when there are significant trauma or abuse issues present, those need to be dealt with with someone who knows how. Or at least acknowledges them. It appears to be at least somewhat common in detoxes and rehabs for the AAs employed in them to tell patients they need to go to address solely the substance abuse issues first and that that is the "primary disease". I truly wish I were speaking only of my own experience there, but have now heard this in too many places to not think it is a widespread practice. (This is also a danger of hinging everything on disease theory, btw.) I have also heard many talk about how those issues are treated in meetings as "outside issues" or merely peripheral to the problem, though I do know many others who have been allowed to share about them and get it all off their chests. That latter part is good, I just wish there were some uniformity there.

Clara's picture

AA is one alcoholic helping another. Unless a person IS in the mental health field, I don't think anyone is suggesting people in the rooms are trained professionals or passing themselves off as such. In fact, didn't we discuss once that my ladies group in MB was comprised of one third counselors, etc., and OPF people spoke about how inappropriate that was and made it out as if they were pimping the rooms for clients when nothing was further from the truth.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Clara's picture

Sorry, Pie. I hadn't read your post when I responded to the previous one.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

I had done many bad things upon coming into AA, this is a fact. I was so filled with guilt and remorse it was literally killing me. A very good friend of mine introduced me to AA and told, "this will be a great place to start your recovery, Lisa". I remember what she said like it was yesterday. This lovely woman didn't tell me AA had all my answers, she didn't tell me that AA would fix me, put a God in my life or that AA would always be a safe place. All she told me was, AA would be a great place to start.
It was, absolutely. AA brought me to a wonderful counselor, weekend workshops, sweats, ceremonies with the native Americans, my husband, children and grandchildren, a great career, vacations, children recitals, volleyball, soccer, football, graduation from HS, college, your childrens first love, breakups, pain, depression, sadness, euphoric happiness and then a wisdom to know when to let go of AA.
AA as I know it today was not designed to attend for the rest of our lives. I believe it was built to inventory a life that had been ravaged by alcohol and help put it back together again. Then take your new found knowledge and go and practice it out in your life.
I understand the extremes many in AA go to, Bill probably was much like these folks. Yet there are also many who do not subscribe to such fanatism, I am one. Maybe I am a minority, IDK.
The AA I understand was not meant to be a way of life or a religion, it was meant to give you a "design" for recovering a life you had thrown away for alcohol.
If alcohol was not more important to you then anything else in your life then we are not speaking apples to apples here with each other. This is what my life had been reduced to. I drank and I didn't care about much more then that.

LisaMarie's picture

Avo, just because Orange wrote his opinions down for 10 years doesn't mean they are factual. They are his opinions which are important and the added plus for you anyway, is that you agree with his opinions.
Not everybody does.

Clara's picture

And I completely disavow your first remark.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

And more WTFF!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

causeandeffect's picture

LOL! Until clara edited her comments they read"

"It is not. There are plenty
It is not. There are plenty of people that get sober without the steps. Those ate often people that don't even come to Aa. Buy I do agree with such things as working through your past, removing ick where can. If people want to argue in part that people self Medicare for "reasons", couldn't a response be to work through them? Doesn't matter to me if it is through AA or a shrink or pastor"

And:

"And I completely disable your
And I completely disable your first remark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FecRtKUqHuQ"

Don't post from any mobile devices, eh clara? LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

So I edited. Big whoop. I am at the store testing an iPad. LM is right. It does change words to something it more identifies. Big score for you. Geez..

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

clara, I don't care if you edit your posts so they make sense. It's funny because you've claimed you were posting from your iPad before, then you lied and said you didn't even use them. Now the fact that you are lying again is LOL-worthy.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

I never said that as I didn't have an iPad until just now, creamgirl.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

avogadno's picture

hahah...oh, so sweet it is...hahahaha...OMG, cawfee on my screen funny...pffffffffffff

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

I'll say her pants were on fire. Her fingers were smoking, she can't post quickly enough!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

LisaMarie's picture

Is this all you do now, pick on Clara. I know it doesn't bother her because she can just tune you out. But jeesh, a woman with your intelligence should be doing much more here then harassing members.

SandyB's picture

Shu up you abusive ass

Shouldn't you be off storming a beach or something?

live_free_or_die's picture

Storming the Beach. June 6, 1944
Banny, this was a momentous day in military history (and history)

Any idea where it is at banny?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

LisaMarie's picture

Listen, IFOD I want to say something to you and I want you to take it seriously. I was wrong to question your service record and call you a liar. I thought about it and feel remorseful, for allowing myself to act in such as way.
I offer my apologies and hope we can put this behind us. If not I will not participate in any more discussions about my misgivings.
Your pic above is of the D Day invasion @ Normany, France. I am not sure what beach head this pic depicts.
As far as my service record, I received a Honorable Discharge upon discharge of the Service. Why I almost received a Court Martial, I disobeyed a direct order from a superior officer. This was a order you would never have followed through with, trust me on this. The Colonel in charge of our unit saw it my way also and stood up for me, thank goodness. But, as in most cases being of lesser rank I had to go. Instead of being transferred with this hanging over my head. I asked to leave the service and they granted it. I had just started my second tour. It was very traumatic for me because I came from a military family. When I returned home I was questioned as to what happened. My father was not happy, though I knew he understood, I also knew I let him down. I had decorated brothers who had been in the service, I had a lot to prove. Being a women didn't help.
I will not discuss what branch or when I was in under these circumstances on this site. I appreciate that you chose to, but that was your decision.

SandyB's picture

iIts amazing how easy lying comes to you Danny (LisaMarie)

http://youtu.be/qiMaOmDtaYI

alkieanon's picture

live_free_or_die asks a question: "Any idea where it is at banny?"

"Soldiers of the 8th Infantry Regiment, 4th Infantry Division, move over a seawall on Utah Beach during the Allied Invasion of Europe."

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2007/05/31/5347
http://www.army.mil/d-day/slideshow.html (#12)

LisaMarie's picture

No, Clara never said that, I said I post here from an iPad.

SandyB's picture

We know where and what you're posting with Daniel :)

causeandeffect's picture

No, it was definitely clara. LOL!

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

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