I borrowed this topic from another poster. Hope you don't mind. : )
This has the potential to be a good topic. My own experience with AA was 20 open meetings that I was mandated to as the result of DUI. I have never been to a closed AA meeting in my life.
I have not had a drink of alcohol for over 2 ½ years now. I used to spend over US$1,000 each month on alcohol (this dollar amount would increase in connection with the NFL season). So now I am saving at least that much each month.
I am healthier now and don’t have to deal with hangovers each morning. What a wonderful thing. I am eating better and getting more exercise as well. In addition, I am more productive at work, although I have always enjoyed what I do for a living.
So for me I am financially better off as well as in better physical health.
Comments
Vicky345uk
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 09:54
Permalink
I too am more healthier. I go
I too am more healthier. I go to the gym and I do yoga. I have more times with friends and just feel free. I don't feel I have to put a show on for people anymore, I can just be myself.
SandyB
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 11:03
Permalink
I drank from the time I woke
I drank from the time I woke till I went to bed. I smoked crack suicidally. AA/NA/CA made the obsession worse. I quit almost 9 years ago when I realized that God wasn't doing it for me because it was something I had to do for myself
I'm not always happy, joyous or free, but I'm happier, more joyful, and finally, without all the people who want to help, I'm free
Clara
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 10:03
Permalink
I've read this guy's stuff
I've read this guy's stuff before because the 20 meetings stood it.
I know many people who used AA as a "time out", maybe learned something in the process, and moved on with their lives without booze. I am glad for them.
I too am much happier physically and emotionally without booze in my life. I just never was around people that lived booze-free. I always lived in places where it was a big part of the business and social culture. AA exposed me to a different side of life, one that I enjoy. And they were happy to be booze free.
Today, my husband and I intermingle with some people that drink, most that don't. I don't feel weird if I go to a gig where my nephew's band is playing and they are all getting drunk. I surely don't even miss it. I have a homelife that i never expected to have because I (and everyone else i knew) were always out on the bars. It's a nice clean house with hummingbird swarms that I love, and I can take notice of things that never mattered to me before. We appreciate it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Conan
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 11:12
Permalink
FFS - Third post
and the derailing starts. How the fuck can you write all that about something you have absolutely no experience of? What a frigging narcissist.
Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol
Clara
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 12:11
Permalink
My experience wasn't yours,
My experience wasn't yours, Con. So what? This had been a nice thread until your bad breath started. Even though I haven't left completely, my involvement is much much less.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 16:39
Permalink
The question was "What have
The question was "What have you accomplished since leaving XA?". IMO a thread that you should either pass over completely, or read and let those that actually left comment.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 17:16
Permalink
Why, Avo? What is the
Why, Avo? What is the difference between me posting to this thread and that Penny did, as well.
With all the Antis that claim I have left since I am not in the rooms daily and that I don't pratice the program as I should, I find your remark a bit suprising.
How about what do I have since I don't drink and I found a bunch of people that showed me a more productive way to live? I have a better relationship with life in general. My family relationships have been rebuilt. I have a husband that I adore, a homelife I never thought I would have. I'm much happier and I have a source of real support and strength.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Gunthar2000
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 17:13
Permalink
Need attention?
Get a cat.
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Gunthar2000
http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:56
Permalink
You obviously misunderstand
You obviously misunderstand cats. Cats are the receivers, not the givers.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:39
Permalink
cats are vermin
cats are vermin
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 20:55
Permalink
Pennywise rooted Gunthar on
Pennywise rooted Gunthar on by responding "Cherish it" to G., this after G. claimed that he was finally free.
Clara, you posted about how good your life has changed because of AA. That's ENTIRELY different than how life changes AFTER leaving and no longer participating in the basket case of a program.
Oddly enough, it doesn't bother me that you blog a lot. It's when the subject matter (a question in this case) isn't your experience.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Clara
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:25
Permalink
Doesn't matter. According to
Doesn't matter. According to you, people that hadn't left AA shouldn't have been posting at all to the thread. You are making acceptions for someone you approve of.
Depending on what suits them best, there are people that believe I don't practice the program at all and are not in AA because I am not a AA holy roller and because I do it as I choose. I have a male sponsor, I don't go to meetings every day, etc.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:42
Permalink
The thread was about life
The thread was about life AFTER AA, thats what this forum is about. Why are you in here girl? you need to go to another forum and preach Bill W gospel. We dont need people like you here, hell we had enough of people like you in AA thats why we got outta there
Clara
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:53
Permalink
Vicky, believe me, over the
Vicky, believe me, over the course of the 6 months I have been on the forum, there are many that think I am not in AA, don't do it as suggested. It changes on any given day.
I would also question that anyone spending time on AA bash boards, if you will, has really "left". As long as you are still sitting in it, you are in it. I would imagine that most on these boards spent more time on OPF complaining about AA than they ever spent in the rooms.
I may not have "left AA" completely but I certainly don't participate to the level I did at one time. MB was a lot different. I doubt I would have stayed in AA if I had gone to my first meeting here.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:55
Permalink
vicky?
vicky?
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 10:33
Permalink
I notice that I sometimes
I notice that I sometimes forget how I've changed and what I have accomplished. I can't say that it's a result of leaving AA, but it has happened since I left. I'm clean/sober, healther - lost about 40 pounds, happier, less shy, less anxiety. Oh bundles of little things, like not worrying that I have to rush to a meeting, which is uncomfortable for me. That's less stress :) and just a personal little thing that helps my life be more comfortable.
I also don't feel like I have to "work" on myself as if I'm a defect constantly. It's a feeling like no other, that I'm so different than "normal" people, bad, that I need a spanking or something. That's big, because my self esteem has lifted and that was important. Good topic, looking forward to reading about other positive changes from others.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
disclosure
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 10:43
Permalink
Since I have left AA I have:
Since I have left AA I have:
Studied alternatives
Shifted from magical thinking to logic
Had evenings with my family
Been of service to people other than strangers
Abandon dangerous beliefs
Finished education
Focused on my own business
Stopped being manipulated
Focused on my wife instead of strange women
Increased my personal security
Kept my business to myself
Respected others more
Improved my diet
becket
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 11:14
Permalink
There's plenty, but to
There's plenty, but to mention any of it, as Clara has above, would just invite accusations and indictments about my being immersed in the "cult of death". Even though I left AA and did not return over 20 years ago, I have come to understand that my viewpoint is prejudged before it ever hits the keyboard. So rave on about your incredible wellness. Life goes on and it will inevitably put a crimp in your euphoria.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 16:55
Permalink
That's true, you have left AA
That's true, you have left AA. I understand being concerned about your view getting prejudice and prefer not to comment about how your life has changed because of it. So instead, you try and ruin it for everyone else that feels good bout leaving? I feel mocked by your comment "So rave on about your incredible wellness". Well why not? Many of us are free from an illness. You have in the past been consistent about voicing your opinion how nothing productive happens in this forum, and now that there is a thread that without question started as positive, you are trying to turn it negative. Can ya not do that please?
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:58
Permalink
Which "illness" are you free
Which "illness" are you free of, avogadno? Are you free from the disease of addiction?
Have you even noticed that I am not the only one commenting here? I didn't say negative things. I just spoke the truth. Learn the difference. Can ya do that please?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
avogadno
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 00:26
Permalink
Why do you think I need to
Why do you think I need to learn the difference? The truth is that your post was negative. The topic was about good things, accomplishments....Yes, there were several comments other than yours. Especially since your first one though, I haven't caught up with the rest yet. Point being?
You don't care about what illness I am free of when you asked "Are you free from disease of addiction?". You won't be happy for me, or have a similar experience to share, nor a comment that relates to the illness it was. You're picking a fight, like I might get jumbled about a possible error, like calling addiction a disease.
It’s topic related and someone might be interested. I said, “Many of us are free from an illness”. I don’t think that addiction is a disease, but I do think it is an illness of sorts. I don’t put a lot of thought into what kind, heck – maybe it’s in a class of it’s self. Unlike diseases however, this illness is one that we can overcome. Bundles of ways, including just not using anymore. It can be a blog of it’s own perhaps. There are other illnesses that I could have had, or that others had and have overcome along the way. Like severe depression, technically a mental illness from what I understand.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 05:42
Permalink
I am free from the insanity
I am free from the insanity of 12 step dogma. I knew i never had a disease of alcoholism it was all horse shit. I am free to run around butt naked and not have to do a step 4 and make amends for being who i wanna be. peace to you brothers and sisters.
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:45
Permalink
Man, you one crazy dude.
Man, you one crazy dude.
Ironic
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 14:30
Permalink
Graduated from college
Graduated from college
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 16:56
Permalink
I forgot to mention that I
I forgot to mention that I don't have to check in with a sponsor all the time nor do assignments that were regularly depressing and not beneficial.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
Gunthar2000
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 17:00
Permalink
I'm free...
I'm free to think and act like a normal person since I've left AA.
This means more to me than anything.... Freedom.
AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.
Gunthar2000
http://www.expaa.org/
Pennywise
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 17:00
Permalink
Cherish it.
Cherish it.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
alkieanon
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:17
Permalink
Was Free And Still Free
"You must choose. But choose wisely, ...." -Grail Knight
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/comment/40193#comment-40193
becket
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:59
Permalink
Are you typical of today's
Are you typical of today's "normal" person?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 17:47
Permalink
Accomplishments & Freedom.
As I started this thread and thought about how to word it, I wasn't sure if I should use language that would somehow apply to all posters here, both AA and anti-AA. Obviously I decided to word it as applying to "leaving XA". I don't think it should by default exclude anybody that wants to contribute something. I mean, I personally don't think I was ever in AA, but I do have a slight connection to the issue and one big connection to alcohol abuse.
As I said in the top post, I got the idea because somebody had asked the question "What have you accomplished since leaving AA?"
A few more thoughts. As disclosure mentioned, I also have become more involved in identifying alternatives to the 12 steps, for numerous personal reasons.
Also, I found freedom from worry and stress as far as not being hungover or even the slightest thought of alcohol again causing problems in my life legally, emotionally, mentally or professionally. As Gunthar said, that feeling of freedom is HUGE.
I have also learned about deceptive language, propaganda and manipulation techniques. I learned about these areas from reading about AA, its founding and teachings, and reading the Orange Papers (thanks again Orange). Learning about these subjects and how to identify them is something that I can use in everyday life but also in my job.
I am joyed to hear that some here have managed to complete college, bolster it or finish it up and graduate. I myself had already completed all that, at Cal State : ), years ago. But, I have learned loads about other life subjects since finding the Orange Papers and having intercourse with folks here.
I have learned some positive things here from some of the AA'ers, and I will leave that at that.
So, so far in the posts on the topic, it seems that freedom is a big positive that has come to ex-AA'ers, and that is never a bad thing. PennyW is correct, we should cherish it.
I will address a comment that becket made.
becket said "Life goes on and it will inevitably put a crimp in your euphoria." This is true becket, and it can probably be said to be a "truism" of life in this universe. Into everyone life a little rain will fall. Or one gets thrown off the horse at times. So the question is how big is the umbrella you will get to keep out of the rain or are you going to get back on the horse. I myself now see the crimps as challenges in life becket, challeges that I will learn from and grow from.
I choose to see the glass as full. Fuck half-empty or half-full. Who came up with that saying anyway?
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
avogadno
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:12
Permalink
Not to suggest that it is an
Not to suggest that it is an AAism, however the eventual "crimp in your euphoria" statement reminds me of the "after the honeymoon" caution in AA. Like, if your feeling good now, for a month or two in the early stages of recovery, watch out because it goes away. Why does it have to?
Like with the glass half full comment, does it have to be that way for everyone or anything? Bumps in the road, the need for an umbrella....13 years of marriage (never had a honeymoon actually) and the only time a voice was raised between us was when we were discussing my need of drug treatment. I hardly think of that as a bump in the road. Marriage has gone on and has gotten better with time.
Lacking of euphoria, a rain storm coming...yes, that's life. But it doesn't take the accomplishments and freedom away those of us have found away. I think it just means that life will always bring some form of difficulty. Having past success with overcoming obstacles will hopefully bring courage and strength to deal with future ones.
Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/
becket
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 00:00
Permalink
Of course, grasshopper. That
Of course, grasshopper. That is what a crimp is.
Not everything is profound.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Persephone In Exile
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 20:31
Permalink
I discovered I was never sick
I discovered I was never sick in the first place! At least not with anything that can keep me down, certainly not with what they thought was wrong with me (aside from the aforementioned injuries, which thankfully healed). Then I started building on that to do more and more and MORE AND MORE!! Every single day! (Sorry, just a bit jazzed today, life is good!)
OK, I do need to add to that. One thing I learned is that I'm not powerless, not at all! I don't mean that in a "take that, AA!" sort of way, either. I'm being quite sincere. I found that when I feel powerless I feel overwhelmed as well, and I freeze up. I found that that was how I always had reacted in the past, but was no longer the way I act (or react) now. When I feel the least bit frustrated or bored these days, I get up and go do something about it. I build on things that I do, learning experiences, training and education as well as work I get done, and the result (quite naturally) is to feel empowered and have a sense of accomplishment. Goal oriented thinking, not instant gratification. That shift happened naturally though, it wasn't a part of any program or decision I made other than to just refuse to ever wallow in it.
The other thing I did? I stopped going to the damned doctors!
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
alkieanon
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 22:18
Permalink
live_free_or_die Reposts
live_free_or_die apparently reposts comments from another poster: "So for me I am financially better off as well as in better physical health." Ditto, but doing both open and closed.
Free
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 23:26
Permalink
Quite a few things
No longer paralyzed by introspection and self analysis.
Cognitive dissonance associated with trying to believe what I couldn't believe has disappeared.
Have regained personal integrity by no longer having to be silent when bombarded by faith based talk. Even better - don't have to listen through it anymore.
Got into MBSR to transition out of aa - love it!
My family no longer gag on thought of slow cooked food 3 nights a week. (I've forever ruined osso bucco and lamb shanks for them.)
No longer creating stress for myself or my family by rushing them so I can get to a meeting.
Trust myself to know what's best for me.
DeConstructor
Mon, 08/20/2012 - 22:54
Permalink
After going through really bad financial problems
I am now financially secure. I also make better business decisions.
I do not ever worry about 'falling off the wagon' In fact I rarely think about drinking.
My family and I have a great relationship.
Yes, I am free.
I not only would not be free had I pursued the path of the AA faith, but in my gut I think I would be dead now.
dorak nob
Tue, 08/21/2012 - 16:51
Permalink
hey decon
I'm very happy to hear you got your financial situation on the upswing. AA really wanted me to let go as they say of my goals of my ambitions , it seems any success I had achieved in the past was supposed to be forgotten and by me working at mcdonalds I would achieve balance in my life. Of course they wanted me to loose all my good friendships and hang out with only AA people. My life hasn't yet turned around but having hope and goals and ambition returns the joy to my life.
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:43
Permalink
Why are there Bill W
Why are there Bill W worshippers in here?
Clara
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:48
Permalink
I don't know if they are
I don't know if they are worshippers, but no one said that in order comment on the thread, you have to have left AA an angry, upset person. Plenty of people get what they need to achieve sobriety and then they mosey on. We have people that have "left AA" but that still hit the occasional meeting for whatever reason.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Bucket123
Wed, 08/22/2012 - 06:53
Permalink
Man i would vomit if i even
Man i would vomit if i even step 1 toe in a meeting?