We continue to see cases of predators hunting on the rooms, grooming and stalking their prey and sometimes the children of their prey.
I submit that members aware of the criminal activity should also be held accountable. If someone in the AA rooms admits to criminal actions, others in the rooms have a responsibility to report that to law enforcement authorities.
I would submit they should be charged with obstruction of justice, and also held personally liable in civil court because of their failure to report criminal activity, such as the athletic department in the Sandusky case is now going through.
This is the real difference between the rooms of AA and grocery stores, coffee shops etc that the AA apologists continue to campare. People outside the rooms of AA do not condone or remain silent in the presence of criminal evil.
I would also submit that if there is a group effort to pass along a predator to another set of unsuspecting victims by sending the predator to another AA group, or for that matter another rehab business, that would be a willful act of coverup that RICO statutes should come into play.
Comments
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 14:53
Permalink
Many former AA members believe that the statue of limitations
Many former AA members believe that the statue of limitations has expired on the predatory actions they have seen or heard about in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is not the case and there are many resources available, which can be seen by the arrest and conviction of Alcoholics Anonymous member William Beebe, 22 years after the crime was committed upon Liz Seccuro when he started to stalk her and turn her world upside down.
Liz Seccuro is an activist and would be a good resource to contact and can be found at: http://www.lizseccuro.com/
Read the rest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/apr/30/rape-justice-after-20-years
Liz Seccuro also has a blog where she investigates current issues at: http://www.lizseccuro.com/blog/
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 15:27
Permalink
Statute of limitations, which
Statute of limitations, which has nothing to do with this case. He admitted to it and had a willing victim to move forward with her options. Even then, she didn't feel that he got enough. The more I read about it, the more I felt for him and that he was ill advised to ever make contact with her. There is a part of the amends that says unless it would cause harm to them or others. And remember too that just because a person says something in the room, you need the cooperation of the victim.
I've never understood why this woman didn't prosecute at the time. She knew who he was, where he could be located, and she wasn't limited to campus security. I've always had mixed feelings about this case for both parties.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 15:39
Permalink
AA apologetic loophole defense. Just like what you are doing on
AA apologetic loophole defense. Just like what you are doing on "Randolph Pozdol in Miami Florida gets 30 yr sentence for pornographic filming and sex with his AA Sponcees Children aged 4 & 6, July 23, 2012" http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/2035
Shame on you!
Don't forget, it's "take what you want and leave the rest", just like you claim is wriiten in the literature of the main office of Alcoholics Anonymous at the Interchurch Center of 475 riverside Drive.... but it's not....
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 15:52
Permalink
What loophole are you talking
What loophole are you talking about? It seems that AA has nothing to do with the fact that children in "live in" situations are 8 times more likely to be abused than children in a marital home.
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/childabuse/a/05_abuse_stats.htm
No matter what, it is reprehensible. I just can't see how AA would be culpable.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 15:42
Permalink
Jana Carter arrested for rape at Teen Rehab Center in Missouri
Ex-Supervisor at Teen Rehab Center Allegedly Raped Patient
Published November 21, 2008
The story of repeated rape at an Alcohol and Drug Rehab.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456184,00.html
Scott Greening Dependency Center
1315 East 20th Street
Joplin, MO
Source: http://www.joplinindependent.com/display_article.php/sray1253899163
Notice the dates..... coincidence?
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 15:54
Permalink
David Scratchley, 12 Step Councilor arrested rape of 10 yr old
David Scratchley, 12 Step Councilor arrested for rape of 10 year old September 2011.
Read more (especially the comments): http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/09/video_david_scratchley_...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
DeConstructor
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:33
Permalink
The Paul Cox case would be a good example
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103426,00.html
There is also sound legal theory to prosecuting these witnesses of a murder confession who are uncooperative.
http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1621&cont...
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:33
Permalink
I can't get the first link to
I can't get the first link to open so I googled the case. Again, AA had no position on it.
I don't think someone would really be able to be prosecuted because someone told you something. I also would have to be absolutely certain before I would reveal anything. It's like Charlie Hooper coming here with that tale. People were screeching, run to the police! without any real proof that it wasn't just a game. The more she she riled posters, the more sensationla she became and the poster never came back.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
DeConstructor
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:40
Permalink
I don't think someone would really be able to be prosecuted beca
'I don't think someone would really be able to be prosecuted because someone told you something.'
Did you even look at the post below. Why do you think they took down Joe Paternos statue?
Hell yes they can prosecute, the courts have ruled that self help groups do not enjoy therapist/client confidentiality, and the only other option AA can pursue would be --gasp- admitting themselves a religion.
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:55
Permalink
No, I didn't, DeCon, because
No, I didn't, DeCon, because most of your links won't open for me.
The statue of JoePa wasn't taken down as part of any criminal prosecution. It was the decision of Penn State and JoePa wasn't prosecuted for anything.
I have never agreed that self help groups enjoy therapist/client confidentiality. I am not a licensed professional. My sponsor charges a dollar for a 5th step so that he CAN claim confidentiality as he's worked with some pretty tough cases that need some help down the line with further steps.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Pennywise
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:32
Permalink
My sponsor charges a dollar
My sponsor charges a dollar for a 5th step so that he CAN claim confidentiality as he's worked with some pretty tough cases that need some help down the line with further steps.
The charging of the one dollar makes no difference. The question is whether the person met with the lawyer for LEGAL advice. Normal step work is not legal advice so it would not be covered by the atty/client privilege. Now your lawyer or the client-sponsee might try to say that the information was disclosed in pursuit of legal advice. In such a case, the one dollar fee will make no difference since many lawyers do pro bono legal work for free, and many lawyers do not charge for an initial consultation (initial consultations are covered by the atty/client privilege in every state I know of). If anything, the nominal fee of one dollar makes it look like a sham to create the appearance of an attorney client relationship when in fact there was none. It sounds like your sponsor is playing fast and loose with the rules of professional responsibility. IMO, he shouldn't tell his sponsees that all they have to do is give him a dollar to create a communications or testimonial privilege. Of course, the laws in his jurisdiction may differ.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
DeConstructor
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:24
Permalink
Or perhaps
he is a very low level AA financial predator. But be careful because financial predation is a progressive disease.
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:44
Permalink
I doubt he is a predator of
I doubt he is a predator of any kind. Very esteemed professional.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
patti
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:13
Permalink
Decon LOL!
Decon
LOL!
patti
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:45
Permalink
Sure they do pro bono work,
Sure they do pro bono work, and I am sure it is more of a tongue in cheek assurance to someone. As I also said, he's worked with some tough cases that needed help for steps further down the line that would take legal advice. No one would want someone just winging some of these things... I wonder if that VA rape case might not have worked out differently if he'd had someone with some legal expertise advising him.
Nice to see you, Penny.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Pennywise
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 18:42
Permalink
Nice to see you, too. Yeah,
Nice to see you, too. Yeah, I'm sure the VA rapist did not speak to a lawyer first. My philosophy would be not to mix step work/sponsorship with legal work/advice. Be a lawyer or a sponsor, but not both.
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
patti
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 21:56
Permalink
Joe Paterno is dead Clara so
Joe Paterno is dead Clara so you are right he hasn't been prosecuted. But each & every one of the other adults who were aware of Sanduskys atrocious sexual child abuse should be prosecuted. It is illegal to know of any & all child abuse & not report or act upon. I read of victim after victim testifying about screaming & begging for help while Sandusky was sodomizing them in his home & a few testified his wife would open the door & look in the room & walk away. She should die in jail right along with Sandusky. Monsignor William Lynn was sentenced to 3 to 6 years today for knowledge of & covering up the sexual child abuses of a priest underling. First the Catholic Church a powerful organized religion, then Penn State a wealthy university with a powerful football team, organization & following. aa's day is coming & every member of aa is accountable for being brain washed into believing that protecting the cult is the right thing to do & not reporting knowledge of crimes is illegal. Individual members will get hammered & not have the amount of wealth necessary for lawsuits & members who have documented complaints to aa with letters will come forward & aa will get sued. Additionally it just doesn't matter that your sponsor takes a $1.00 fee for listening to any 5th step confessions, when being an aa member he is not in an officer of the court position or capacity, he's just another looney bin cult member.
patti
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:03
Permalink
patti, maybe it's news to you
patti, maybe it's news to you, but did you read that Bill Wilson is also dead? So why hold him responsible for what some pathetic pervert did to two children?
AA ain't nevah gonna get sued successfully. Whack jobs like you might attempt it, but your arguments are so specious that you would be thrown right out of court. Let me know when and where: I'll crank up the video. It'll be just like standing right outside the saloon doors in Dodge.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
patti
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:48
Permalink
Becket
Becket
Dum-Dum. The obvious point regarding Joe Paterno not being prosecuted is that he can't be prosecuted due to being dead. Therefore obviously Clara's irrelevant point that Joe Pa not being prosecuted was moot. Get it? I heard the FBI investigative indictment on the news & it's likely that more people involved in the Penn State cover up will be indicted & prosecuted. Surely you are aware of the punishments Penn State has to serve for the abuse & cover up. Fined 60 million dollars just one of the many the NCAA enforced. Additionally Penn State has been advised to shut down their football program by their own attorneys. Although you are obviously an active aa member you may have a crystal ball or an ouija board & are able to predict the future. aa has already been sued & quickly settles out of court quietly & confidentially. Eventually just like other organized religions such as the Catholic Church aa will be sued in public & paid employee's who ignored & covered up the truth regarding the many, many abuses that occur in aa will likely be prosecuted. Its not an if its a when. I know that you have written multiple times that you no longer belong to aa but you lie so often that you have no creditability & I do not believe you are not an active cult zealot. That you are a complete & utter whack job is a definite.
patti
becket
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 15:28
Permalink
You don't expect me to
You don't expect me to actually read this, do you patti?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
DeConstructor
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:24
Permalink
Also members of the AA faith should wear identifying clothing
as was originally done in the Pre AA Sons of Temperance, wearing their full regalia.
http://nationalheritagemuseum.typepad.com/library_and_archives/sons-of-t...
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:34
Permalink
You mean rather like Jews in
You mean rather like Jews in the ghetto? AA isn't a temperance group.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:49
Permalink
AA makes it's own AA Ghetto, they are called sober homes
AA makes it's own AA Ghetto, they are called sober homes and General Service Areas of Alcoholics Anonymous bringing down housing values and the morals of the surrounding area by heavily recruiting from jails and prison for their members. this can plainly be seen in the problems with sober homes being opened up from Newport Beach, California to Delray, Florida to Lewiston, Maine.
These AA ghettos are directly tied to the General Service Area and District Committee members (DCM) of those areas who actively promote the policies and procedures needed to grow the cult using "Correction Committees" (sometimes hidden under Hospitals and Institutions (H&I) to "hide" the connections.)
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:50
Permalink
AA makes its own ghetto, you
AA makes its own ghetto, you say. How does that impact you on a daily basis?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:25
Permalink
Torture victim saved by local bar members, not AA members
In a very sick case of torture in 2011, a Toronto, Canada man befriended another man in Alcoholics Anonymous and let him move into his home, something done often in the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. AA member John Michael Siscoe took over the home of his victim and his wife, locked him in a closet, tortured him, blocking him off from outside contact. Siscoe was active in AA and even wanted to start a "sober home", but it wasn't the close members of AA, it was patrons at a local bar that realized something was wrong... How could this be? Were they practicing the "anonymity" clause of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous and looking the other way?
Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1115837--torture-victim-te...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:39
Permalink
Can you point out the role of
Can you point out the role of AA in this for me? I guess I missed how a person in AA would have more of a vibe than people in your neighborhood.
I also wonder why it is that Danny is constantly brought up here and then you wonder why he keeps coming back.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
Persephone In Exile
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 08:52
Permalink
Maybe he took the "keep
Maybe he took the "keep coming back" and left the rest?
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
Clara
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 09:23
Permalink
Perhaps he does, but I don't
Perhaps he does, but I don't understand trying to bait this guy and then making him out to be a problem. I understand that there are people on this board that forget the internet is open to everyone, but to keep chasing a person you know WILL respond just makes them all equal to me.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 19:58
Permalink
I really, really, really wish
I really, really, really wish I hadn't read that.
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
Clara
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 20:19
Permalink
Why? Unless there is another
Why? Unless there is another source, there wasn't any mention of AA in the article, or that either man belonged to the fellowship. The article says that the wife started an affair with this man and moved him into the house, not that the man was befriended through AA and that he invited him to stay.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
causeandeffect
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 20:34
Permalink
"Why?" You have to ask "Why?"
"Why?" You have to ask "Why?"!!!
What kind of a sick monster are you?!?
Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson
patti
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 21:59
Permalink
C & E
C & E
I know I read of this atrocious case in the newspaper & was horrified.
patti
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:06
Permalink
You must be crazy. It's
You must be crazy. It's clear from the picture that there is no "Siscoe" - the illustration of the man on the stand is one of Richard Nixon, and everybody knows Nixon was NOT in AA.
(how'm I doin, patti?)
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
DeConstructor
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 16:28
Permalink
Is John Michael Siscoe one of Danny's aliases?
This sounds alot like Danny. Was there any mention of dragging the home owner behind the car?
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:08
Permalink
Apparently nothing in recent
Apparently nothing in recent news has quite captured your imagination as that alleged incident. Or are you just running out of material? Ask patti to help you - she seems a bottomless pit of ordure.
Harsh? Mm.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Ironic
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:03
Permalink
I submit that AA members
I submit that AA members protecting fellow AAs who have committed sexual abuses past and present under the cover of "anonymity" face a firing squad.
patti
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:04
Permalink
Ironic
Ironic
they should go to prison. Sandusky preyed on the most vulnerable children the underprivileged & down trodden with absent parents & living in poverty & despair. Sandusky would have never gotten away with his crimes if he was preying on children with parents & a stable home & environment. Sandusky preyed on poor Afro American males. Prisons in the U. S. are filled with poor Afro American males from the same environments & backgrounds as the children Sandusky preyed upon. I hope Sandusky stays alive in jail for years & gets what he has coming. Let the abuser be abused. Scumbag. Same with aa cult members. Let the abusers & the abusers protectors get what they have coming & go to prison & let the cult get sued for ignoring the abusers & turning a blind eye to protect the cult. The cult comes first!
patti
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:11
Permalink
Who stands so tall when the
Who stands so tall when the abused are afraid they will be killed if they reveal the abuse? Would you have them violate their own survival instincts just to make you happy?
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
live_free_or_die
Sun, 07/29/2012 - 06:29
Permalink
Stand tall
judge becker says >> "Who stands so tall when the abused are afraid they will be killed if they reveal the abuse? Would you have them violate their own survival instincts just to make you happy?"
So it seems that the judge is admitting that abuse does indeed happen in the roomz of AA.
Thanks judge becket.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
becket
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:13
Permalink
And are you going to pull the
And are you going to pull the trigger that puts them all down, Ironic? Or do you just want them to "face" the firing squad with no firing? Will you delegate that so you don't have to get your hands dirty? That's the beauty of the lethal injection. No one even has to wash up afterward.
“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian
Ironic
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 23:27
Permalink
I suppose I tend to think of
I suppose I tend to think of a "lethal injection" as something that would feel nice. Must be conditioning.
Clara
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 07:38
Permalink
That's eerie, Ironic, but I
That's eerie, Ironic, but I guess the only difference is outcome.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:11
Permalink
Girls Journal Describes gang rape by AA members 2008
Read more:http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/75915/news/world/girl-kept-detailed...
AA members Stacey Parnitzke, 40, and former boyfriend Shane Casey, 38 have been in jail and court since their arrest.....
"Sex slave trial resumes with 1 defendant" February 4, 2011 http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=13969057
"Guilty verdicts in child sex slave case" April 27, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12383357
"Jury deliberates whether adults used girl as sex slave" April 26, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12373387
"Couple on trial for sex assault on girl" April 19, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12337687
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
massive
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 17:56
Permalink
Decon- very good point. AA
Decon- very good point. AA members are really weird...
There was a judge recently who sent a priest to jail for the cover up of pedophile priests. He complained " I did nothing" " he said , You are giving me more then those who committed the acts. "
The Judge didn't take his crap and sent his ass to jail. It was on NPR this morning. I will try to find the link and more info.
Massive
JR Harris
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 18:07
Permalink
Msgr. William J. Lynn in Philly 3 to 6 years "turned blind eye"
Read More: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120724_Lynne_scheduled_for_...
"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.
patti
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 22:08
Permalink
Massive
Massive
Monsignor William Lynn was sentenced to 3-6 years today for covering up the sexual abuse of one of his priests for years. Lynn actually hid the reports of the priest's abuses in a safe! And he was crying like a bitch today in court & saying he was only doing what he was obligated to do according to the church. Some days are a good day for justice & today was one of those days. Maybe Lynn & Sandusky will be cell mates in the same prison in Pennsylvania.
patti
Clara
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 07:43
Permalink
But until two years ago, you
But until two years ago, you liked AA and the people in it for 35 years. I just don't get it.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
live_free_or_die
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 09:30
Permalink
This might be beyond your understanding
CLar, but AA has so many of the characteristics of a cult that one might conclude that AA is, indeed, a cult.
Do you recall Jonestown CLar? Have you figured that out yet?
Do you recall Heaven's Gate CLar? Have you figured that out yet?
Here >> "Drawing on scores of publications penned since the 1940s about AA as a cult, two notably balanced recent academic contributions were L. Allen Ragels’ Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult? An Old Question Revisited and Jeffrey A. Schaler’s Cult-Busting. Both authors found AA to be a cult, having used as a main reference the modern definitive work of its genre, Francesca Alexander and Michele Rollins’ 1984 project, Alcoholics Anonymous: The Unseen Cult. Alexander and Rollins were sociologists who had infiltrated AA under cover to investigate cult practices. They measured AA against criteria developed by Robert J. Lifton. His 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, based on his research of the Communist “re-education” programs of Mao Tse-tung,is a classic work on brainwashing. Alexander and Rollins concluded that, “On the basis of this study, the authors contend that AA uses all the methods of brain washing, which are also the methods used by cults. It is our contention that AA is a cult.” (Alexander & Rollins.) They found that AA’s established cult criteria characteristics include sacred science, mystical manipulation, sacred texts, chants and rituals, demand for confession and purity, milieu control, love-bombing and family substitution, loaded language and parallel “thought reform” mind control techniques to those used in Red China."
To voluntarily disfellowship oneself from the AA cult is an act of empowerment.
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
Clara
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 09:37
Permalink
It's not beyond my
It's not beyond my understanding, LF. I just disagree that it is a cult or that I don't have the free will to go or to stay.
Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.
live_free_or_die
Wed, 07/25/2012 - 09:49
Permalink
You just don't get it?
Well CLar, in your post you said, I just don't get it.
It is fact that some in this world see Alcoholics Anonymous as a cult. It doesn't really matter if you see it as a cult, although I am sorry you are a practicing AA member. More poweer to ya.
If someone sees through the AA sham and leaves, who are you to even question the person leaving AA?
It is a personal choice. And if someone decides to speak out against AA, so be it.
Now, the free will question you will need to take up with soberman.
Don't drink, do as you please?
Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/
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