Criminal Predators in the AA rooms (and rehabs)

We continue to see cases of predators hunting on the rooms, grooming and stalking their prey and sometimes the children of their prey.

I submit that members aware of the criminal activity should also be held accountable. If someone in the AA rooms admits to criminal actions, others in the rooms have a responsibility to report that to law enforcement authorities.

I would submit they should be charged with obstruction of justice, and also held personally liable in civil court because of their failure to report criminal activity, such as the athletic department in the Sandusky case is now going through.

This is the real difference between the rooms of AA and grocery stores, coffee shops etc that the AA apologists continue to campare. People outside the rooms of AA do not condone or remain silent in the presence of criminal evil.

I would also submit that if there is a group effort to pass along a predator to another set of unsuspecting victims by sending the predator to another AA group, or for that matter another rehab business, that would be a willful act of coverup that RICO statutes should come into play.

Comments

JR Harris's picture

Many former AA members believe that the statue of limitations has expired on the predatory actions they have seen or heard about in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is not the case and there are many resources available, which can be seen by the arrest and conviction of Alcoholics Anonymous member William Beebe, 22 years after the crime was committed upon Liz Seccuro when he started to stalk her and turn her world upside down.

Liz Seccuro is an activist and would be a good resource to contact and can be found at: http://www.lizseccuro.com/

It was late summer 2005 and we were about to set out on an extended vacation with our two-year-old daughter, Ava. "Hey, you got a letter," said my husband Mike, tossing it to me like a Frisbee. It smelled faintly of vanilla, nice paper. I ripped it open and began to read the very precise, almost feminine cursive script.

Dear Elizabeth:

In October 1984 I harmed you. I can scarcely begin to understand the degree to which, in your eyes, my behaviour has affected you in its wake. Still, I stand prepared to hear from you about just how, and in what ways you've been affected; and to begin to set right the wrong I've done, in any way you see fit. Most sincerely yours, Will Beebe

In 1984, I arrived, like any other student, at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville. An only child, I was the first in my family to attend college. My parents were thrilled, although the university was far from our home town, a suburb of New York City. I had graduated top of my high school class and was prepared to make something great of myself. But those hopes and dreams were dashed about five weeks later.

Read the rest: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/apr/30/rape-justice-after-20-years

Liz Seccuro also has a blog where she investigates current issues at: http://www.lizseccuro.com/blog/

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Statute of limitations, which has nothing to do with this case. He admitted to it and had a willing victim to move forward with her options. Even then, she didn't feel that he got enough. The more I read about it, the more I felt for him and that he was ill advised to ever make contact with her. There is a part of the amends that says unless it would cause harm to them or others. And remember too that just because a person says something in the room, you need the cooperation of the victim.

I've never understood why this woman didn't prosecute at the time. She knew who he was, where he could be located, and she wasn't limited to campus security. I've always had mixed feelings about this case for both parties.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

AA apologetic loophole defense. Just like what you are doing on "Randolph Pozdol in Miami Florida gets 30 yr sentence for pornographic filming and sex with his AA Sponcees Children aged 4 & 6, July 23, 2012" http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/2035

Shame on you!

Don't forget, it's "take what you want and leave the rest", just like you claim is wriiten in the literature of the main office of Alcoholics Anonymous at the Interchurch Center of 475 riverside Drive.... but it's not....

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

What loophole are you talking about? It seems that AA has nothing to do with the fact that children in "live in" situations are 8 times more likely to be abused than children in a marital home.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/childabuse/a/05_abuse_stats.htm

No matter what, it is reprehensible. I just can't see how AA would be culpable.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Ex-Supervisor at Teen Rehab Center Allegedly Raped Patient
Published November 21, 2008
The story of repeated rape at an Alcohol and Drug Rehab.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,456184,00.html

Scott Greening Dependency Center
1315 East 20th Street
Joplin, MO

Joplin's Scott Greening Center changes hands sray
Updated: 2009-09-25 11:19:23
Preferred Family Healthcare (PFH) acquired the Scott Greening Center, also known as Youth Dependency Inc., and will take over operations effective October 1, 2009. The center located at 1315 East 20th St. in Joplin provides outpatient, day and residential treatment for adolescents ages 12-17 with substance abuse and co-occurring mental health issues.

As part of their treatment, youth in the program provide community service and participate in A.R.T.C., (Achieving Recovery Through Creativity), a creative arts program recognized by First Lady Barbara Bush in 2007 for exemplifying her “Helping America’s Youth” initiative.

Preferred Family Healthcare, a not-for-profit agency, has served Missouri citizens for three decades, providing mental health and substance abuse prevention and treatment services for both adults and adolescents throughout Missouri, and more recently in Texas and Kansas. PFH is nationally accredited by the Commission on Accreditation of Rehabilitation Facilities. Services are funded by state grants, Medicaid, private insurance or private pay. This is the second Scott Greening facility purchased by Preferred Family Healthcare; the first in Kansas City in 2003. Mike Schwend is president and CEO.

Source: http://www.joplinindependent.com/display_article.php/sray1253899163

Notice the dates..... coincidence?

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

JR Harris's picture

David Scratchley, 12 Step Councilor arrested for rape of 10 year old September 2011.

Video: David Scratchley, 'Child Safety' Expert Accused of Attempting to Rape 10-Year-Old, Says Addicts Are 'Sick'

By Nina Shapiro Wed., Sep. 7 2011 at 4:58 PM

UPDATE: Scratchley was charged today with attempted rape of a child in the first degree and communication with a minor for immoral purposes. He is being held in the King County Jail on $1 million bail, and will be arraigned on September 21.

It's not hard to get a sense of David Scratchley's personality--at least the one he presented to the world. The drug-treatment manager, arrested on Friday for investigation of attempted child rape, is all over the web.

The 52-year-old Scratchley (shown in the above picture) has posted a series of videos of himself holding forth on a number of topics--among them "power parenting" and "treatment options for addicted teens," subjects that he has also addressed in books. (See typical video below.)

So what do we learn from his online presentations? Mostly, that if Scratchley had a dark side, it was buried beneath an exceedingly bland persona. The 52-year-old, looking his age with a slightly receding hairline, goes through his material in a droning voice. After introducing himself as "Dr. David Scratchley, a psychologist working in Seattle, Washington," he cuts to PowerPoint presentations and invites viewers to follow along on a couple of his websites (www.drugseminars.net is one).

The topics of his expertise are ironic, of course, given the allegations against him. The man who is suspected of attempting to sexually assault a 10-year-old boy is frequently described, in various online bios of him, as a "child safety" expert. And, despite his work treating addiction, a woman who told police she was having a relationship with Scratchley said they got high on crack together

Read more (especially the comments): http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/09/video_david_scratchley_...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

DeConstructor's picture

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103426,00.html

There is also sound legal theory to prosecuting these witnesses of a murder confession who are uncooperative.

http://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1621&cont...

Clara's picture

I can't get the first link to open so I googled the case. Again, AA had no position on it.

I don't think someone would really be able to be prosecuted because someone told you something. I also would have to be absolutely certain before I would reveal anything. It's like Charlie Hooper coming here with that tale. People were screeching, run to the police! without any real proof that it wasn't just a game. The more she she riled posters, the more sensationla she became and the poster never came back.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

DeConstructor's picture

'I don't think someone would really be able to be prosecuted because someone told you something.'

Did you even look at the post below. Why do you think they took down Joe Paternos statue?

Hell yes they can prosecute, the courts have ruled that self help groups do not enjoy therapist/client confidentiality, and the only other option AA can pursue would be --gasp- admitting themselves a religion.

Clara's picture

No, I didn't, DeCon, because most of your links won't open for me.

The statue of JoePa wasn't taken down as part of any criminal prosecution. It was the decision of Penn State and JoePa wasn't prosecuted for anything.

I have never agreed that self help groups enjoy therapist/client confidentiality. I am not a licensed professional. My sponsor charges a dollar for a 5th step so that he CAN claim confidentiality as he's worked with some pretty tough cases that need some help down the line with further steps.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

My sponsor charges a dollar for a 5th step so that he CAN claim confidentiality as he's worked with some pretty tough cases that need some help down the line with further steps.

The charging of the one dollar makes no difference. The question is whether the person met with the lawyer for LEGAL advice. Normal step work is not legal advice so it would not be covered by the atty/client privilege. Now your lawyer or the client-sponsee might try to say that the information was disclosed in pursuit of legal advice. In such a case, the one dollar fee will make no difference since many lawyers do pro bono legal work for free, and many lawyers do not charge for an initial consultation (initial consultations are covered by the atty/client privilege in every state I know of). If anything, the nominal fee of one dollar makes it look like a sham to create the appearance of an attorney client relationship when in fact there was none. It sounds like your sponsor is playing fast and loose with the rules of professional responsibility. IMO, he shouldn't tell his sponsees that all they have to do is give him a dollar to create a communications or testimonial privilege. Of course, the laws in his jurisdiction may differ.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

DeConstructor's picture

he is a very low level AA financial predator. But be careful because financial predation is a progressive disease.

Clara's picture

I doubt he is a predator of any kind. Very esteemed professional.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Decon
LOL!

patti

Clara's picture

Sure they do pro bono work, and I am sure it is more of a tongue in cheek assurance to someone. As I also said, he's worked with some tough cases that needed help for steps further down the line that would take legal advice. No one would want someone just winging some of these things... I wonder if that VA rape case might not have worked out differently if he'd had someone with some legal expertise advising him.

Nice to see you, Penny.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Nice to see you, too. Yeah, I'm sure the VA rapist did not speak to a lawyer first. My philosophy would be not to mix step work/sponsorship with legal work/advice. Be a lawyer or a sponsor, but not both.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Joe Paterno is dead Clara so you are right he hasn't been prosecuted. But each & every one of the other adults who were aware of Sanduskys atrocious sexual child abuse should be prosecuted. It is illegal to know of any & all child abuse & not report or act upon. I read of victim after victim testifying about screaming & begging for help while Sandusky was sodomizing them in his home & a few testified his wife would open the door & look in the room & walk away. She should die in jail right along with Sandusky. Monsignor William Lynn was sentenced to 3 to 6 years today for knowledge of & covering up the sexual child abuses of a priest underling. First the Catholic Church a powerful organized religion, then Penn State a wealthy university with a powerful football team, organization & following. aa's day is coming & every member of aa is accountable for being brain washed into believing that protecting the cult is the right thing to do & not reporting knowledge of crimes is illegal. Individual members will get hammered & not have the amount of wealth necessary for lawsuits & members who have documented complaints to aa with letters will come forward & aa will get sued. Additionally it just doesn't matter that your sponsor takes a $1.00 fee for listening to any 5th step confessions, when being an aa member he is not in an officer of the court position or capacity, he's just another looney bin cult member.

patti

becket's picture

patti, maybe it's news to you, but did you read that Bill Wilson is also dead? So why hold him responsible for what some pathetic pervert did to two children?

AA ain't nevah gonna get sued successfully. Whack jobs like you might attempt it, but your arguments are so specious that you would be thrown right out of court. Let me know when and where: I'll crank up the video. It'll be just like standing right outside the saloon doors in Dodge.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Becket
Dum-Dum. The obvious point regarding Joe Paterno not being prosecuted is that he can't be prosecuted due to being dead. Therefore obviously Clara's irrelevant point that Joe Pa not being prosecuted was moot. Get it? I heard the FBI investigative indictment on the news & it's likely that more people involved in the Penn State cover up will be indicted & prosecuted. Surely you are aware of the punishments Penn State has to serve for the abuse & cover up. Fined 60 million dollars just one of the many the NCAA enforced. Additionally Penn State has been advised to shut down their football program by their own attorneys. Although you are obviously an active aa member you may have a crystal ball or an ouija board & are able to predict the future. aa has already been sued & quickly settles out of court quietly & confidentially. Eventually just like other organized religions such as the Catholic Church aa will be sued in public & paid employee's who ignored & covered up the truth regarding the many, many abuses that occur in aa will likely be prosecuted. Its not an if its a when. I know that you have written multiple times that you no longer belong to aa but you lie so often that you have no creditability & I do not believe you are not an active cult zealot. That you are a complete & utter whack job is a definite.

patti

becket's picture

You don't expect me to actually read this, do you patti?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

as was originally done in the Pre AA Sons of Temperance, wearing their full regalia.

http://nationalheritagemuseum.typepad.com/library_and_archives/sons-of-t...

Clara's picture

You mean rather like Jews in the ghetto? AA isn't a temperance group.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

AA makes it's own AA Ghetto, they are called sober homes and General Service Areas of Alcoholics Anonymous bringing down housing values and the morals of the surrounding area by heavily recruiting from jails and prison for their members. this can plainly be seen in the problems with sober homes being opened up from Newport Beach, California to Delray, Florida to Lewiston, Maine.

These AA ghettos are directly tied to the General Service Area and District Committee members (DCM) of those areas who actively promote the policies and procedures needed to grow the cult using "Correction Committees" (sometimes hidden under Hospitals and Institutions (H&I) to "hide" the connections.)

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

AA makes its own ghetto, you say. How does that impact you on a daily basis?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

In a very sick case of torture in 2011, a Toronto, Canada man befriended another man in Alcoholics Anonymous and let him move into his home, something done often in the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. AA member John Michael Siscoe took over the home of his victim and his wife, locked him in a closet, tortured him, blocking him off from outside contact. Siscoe was active in AA and even wanted to start a "sober home", but it wasn't the close members of AA, it was patrons at a local bar that realized something was wrong... How could this be? Were they practicing the "anonymity" clause of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous and looking the other way?

Torture victim tells of 3-month ordeal in Toronto apartment

By Fong, Petti January 15, 2012

VANCOUVER — He says his name, his real name, almost defiantly, proud that this, at least, has not been taken from him.

Not the nickname he was called by his torturers over the months he was kept in captivity, sleeping in a tiny closet, beaten to the point where every time the blood splattered on the walls, he was surprised at the sight.

“I didn't know I had any blood left,” he says. “I didn't know there was any more way they could hurt me and cause me pain.”

He is a victim, he was tortured and he survived one of the most shocking crimes to be heard in a Toronto court.

He can name the man, John Michael Siscoe, who did this to him but he cannot name his other captor, his wife. A court ban protects his identity but in doing so, it also protects her. He wishes he could go public.

“What happened to me happened because it was behind closed doors and most people who knew or heard something didn't speak up. Only a few people were willing to say something,” he says. “If they hadn't, I would still be there, in that closet. Or I would be dead.”

The man described exclusively to the Star the three months in which he was brutally tortured, physically, sexually and psychologically.

His wife and Siscoe pleaded guilty in Ontario Superior Court last week to a series of charges, including endangering a life and sexual assault causing bodily harm, from Oct. 31, 2009, until police rescued the man from the one-bedroom west-end Toronto apartment on Jan. 19, 2010.

He spoke in the rec room of the apartment building where he now lives in a Vancouver suburb.

The complex includes three other buildings, adjoined by hallways and linked by shared weight rooms, laundry facilities and game rooms.

He is aware of the time to the minute when doors are automatically and systematically locked in the public spaces and which door locks behind him when he passes through to go outside for a smoke. That he has the access codes to unlock the doors is a point of pride for him.

There is a wariness now about people where before, his current girlfriend remembers, the man she knew was always friendly, always willing to help anyone, with nothing unkind to say about anyone. But now he trusts no one and while he's still so angry at his wife and Siscoe that his hands clench reflexively when their names are brought up, he simply wants to move on.

“I just don't want to know them anymore,” he says when asked whether he plans to divorce the woman he married in 2005 in their former hometown in B.C's Fraser Valley.

They lived off the modest income he earned as a small engine mechanic and a disability allowance from the government.

But three years into their marriage, the man’s wife began an affair with Siscoe, allowing him to move into their apartment and relegating the man to a couch in his own home. In the fall of 2009, when his wife was pregnant with Siscoe’s baby, the three of them moved to Toronto and began living in a similar arrangement in a basement apartment.

A month after their move, the beatings began.

His girlfriend today, who first met him in 2004 at a Christian gathering, says when she saw him again after his return to the west coast in late January 2010, she hardly recognized him.

“Everything about him had changed, from the way he walked to the way he talks. He's not that person I knew back then, he's changed in almost every way,” she says.

His own mother didn’t recognize him. She walked by him three times at the airport when she went to pick him up after his release from hospital in Toronto.

“He was all shrunk up,” she says during an interview at her home about 45 minutes away from where her son now lives. She demonstrates, hunching her body into a curve, hands tucked low against her side. “This was the way he looked. Half his size. Afraid. I think he thought he would be hit again even though he was back home.”

His mother doesn't want to know the details of what her son endured and his girlfriend says she listens when he wants to talk about it, which is rarely.

Only recently has he been able to sleep without an overhead light on but still insists on a light being visible somewhere, whether as a night light or in a hallway. When he’s in the shower he wants his girlfriend in the couple’s tiny bathroom with him for security.

According to the agreed statement of facts presented in court, the man was forced to sit naked in a bathtub while Siscoe poured lighter fluid on his body, then set him on fire. Siscoe also used hairspray, aftershave and rubbing alcohol as accelerants.

“Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about,” Siscoe would tell the victim. His wife would shout “Shut up” when he screamed loudly, worried police or social services would come and take the unborn baby away if anyone learned about the abuse.

The tiny closet he was forced to sleep in was so dark that pitch darkness still makes him scream. But he has made progress.

Just last month, he turned off the lights in a room, did a mock scream and then quickly turned the lights back on.

“I even laughed about it. But I can still feel that I get totally freaked out when someone accidentally turns off the light,” he says. “I'll try it again sometime. I know I won't be able to do it ever in the washroom.”

He had quit drinking in 2004 but began again during the three months he was in captivity, the better to cope with the pain of being sliced with razor blades and pierced with pins through his lips to seal his mouth.

Oozing wounds were cauterized with hot knives or sewn with a needle and thread. Cartilage was ripped from his ears with a pair of pliers.

He believes at least once, drugs were mixed in with his soup to keep him from screaming in pain. This was after he was kicked with steel-toed boots, which were later recovered by the police with blood stains on them.

He says he has not consumed any alcohol since being rescued.

It was the agonizing pain and the desperate attempts to do whatever he had to do to keep from getting beaten again that has left him fuzzy about the time he was in the apartment. He was forced to fill out forms with headers such as “To do what it takes to not be stupid” and “To do what I have to do to stay alive.” He endured more beatings when his captors put an X next to boxes along the side to indicate he hadn’t done the right thing.

“They looked for any reason to start again. It felt like it never ended,” he says. He knows now, thinking about the measurements objectively, that Siscoe wasn't much bigger than he was, but the victim, who says he was always “a lover not a fighter,” felt physically threatened by the other man who knew martial arts.

Yet despite the pain inflicted on him, there was something else that he never anticipated: humiliation.

Once, he vaguely remembers someone else coming to the apartment, a woman, and he was called out of the closet by Siscoe.

“Embarrassed,” he says when asked what it was like to emerge from a closet wearing only a towel and being paraded in front of a stranger in the apartment. “Embarrassed and just felt humiliated, like nothing. Even then, I thought, it was like this was a movie. A movie that couldn't be real.”

Asked if he thought about asking her for help, the man looks uncertain. “I couldn't ask anyone for help. I prayed someone would come and find me but I didn't know if that would change anything.”

The woman reported that she saw the victim with his skin so purple and black from the beatings that she didn't know his race. She grabbed her daughter and left and he went back into the closet.

If she could leave, why couldn't he? Again, the victim thinks about this for a second. The bruises are gone but the scars remain all over his body, white healed marks so numerous they have become part of the texture of his skin, on his arms and legs and the rest of his torso.

“John said if I left, he would find me and kill me. If he couldn't find me, he would go find my parents and do to them what he was doing to me,” he says. “Those were his words. That what he was doing to me, he would do to them. I couldn't do that to them. They wouldn't survive.”

A week later, the woman who had been in the apartment and another man from a nearby bar who had also suspected something walked into a police station to report the abuse. The police officer who opened the closet door told the man he was safe. The first words out of the victim's mouth were: “I don't want to get them in trouble.”

He says now that his first thoughts were different. A phrase he kept repeating over and over in his mind but couldn't say out loud. “Thank you.”

The clearest memory he has about what happened after he was brought out of the apartment and taken to the hospital is eating ice cream, he says. A lot of ice cream and he could feel it dribble from his broken mouth but it didn't matter because there was no one to punish him for making a mess.

Then he fell asleep again and when he woke up, he was still in the hospital. His eyes traced an IV line connected from his body to the ground to a machine and from that to another tube over the hospital bed where he saw a bag of blood pumping and moving as if it was living thing.

“That's when I knew I was safe. I was hooked up to something and I was alive.”

Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1115837--torture-victim-te...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Clara's picture

Can you point out the role of AA in this for me? I guess I missed how a person in AA would have more of a vibe than people in your neighborhood.

I also wonder why it is that Danny is constantly brought up here and then you wonder why he keeps coming back.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Maybe he took the "keep coming back" and left the rest?

Clara's picture

Perhaps he does, but I don't understand trying to bait this guy and then making him out to be a problem. I understand that there are people on this board that forget the internet is open to everyone, but to keep chasing a person you know WILL respond just makes them all equal to me.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

I really, really, really wish I hadn't read that.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Why? Unless there is another source, there wasn't any mention of AA in the article, or that either man belonged to the fellowship. The article says that the wife started an affair with this man and moved him into the house, not that the man was befriended through AA and that he invited him to stay.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

causeandeffect's picture

"Why?" You have to ask "Why?"!!!

What kind of a sick monster are you?!?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

C & E
I know I read of this atrocious case in the newspaper & was horrified.

patti

becket's picture

You must be crazy. It's clear from the picture that there is no "Siscoe" - the illustration of the man on the stand is one of Richard Nixon, and everybody knows Nixon was NOT in AA.

(how'm I doin, patti?)

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

This sounds alot like Danny. Was there any mention of dragging the home owner behind the car?

becket's picture

Apparently nothing in recent news has quite captured your imagination as that alleged incident. Or are you just running out of material? Ask patti to help you - she seems a bottomless pit of ordure.

Harsh? Mm.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

I submit that AA members protecting fellow AAs who have committed sexual abuses past and present under the cover of "anonymity" face a firing squad.

Ironic
they should go to prison. Sandusky preyed on the most vulnerable children the underprivileged & down trodden with absent parents & living in poverty & despair. Sandusky would have never gotten away with his crimes if he was preying on children with parents & a stable home & environment. Sandusky preyed on poor Afro American males. Prisons in the U. S. are filled with poor Afro American males from the same environments & backgrounds as the children Sandusky preyed upon. I hope Sandusky stays alive in jail for years & gets what he has coming. Let the abuser be abused. Scumbag. Same with aa cult members. Let the abusers & the abusers protectors get what they have coming & go to prison & let the cult get sued for ignoring the abusers & turning a blind eye to protect the cult. The cult comes first!

patti

becket's picture

Who stands so tall when the abused are afraid they will be killed if they reveal the abuse? Would you have them violate their own survival instincts just to make you happy?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

live_free_or_die's picture

judge becker says >> "Who stands so tall when the abused are afraid they will be killed if they reveal the abuse? Would you have them violate their own survival instincts just to make you happy?"

So it seems that the judge is admitting that abuse does indeed happen in the roomz of AA.

Thanks judge becket.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

becket's picture

And are you going to pull the trigger that puts them all down, Ironic? Or do you just want them to "face" the firing squad with no firing? Will you delegate that so you don't have to get your hands dirty? That's the beauty of the lethal injection. No one even has to wash up afterward.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Ironic's picture

I suppose I tend to think of a "lethal injection" as something that would feel nice. Must be conditioning.

Clara's picture

That's eerie, Ironic, but I guess the only difference is outcome.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

Girl kept detailed diary of rapes by mother's boyfriend

January 9, 2008 6:03pm

BURLINGTON, Vermont – An English woman has been charged with aggravated sexual assault on a child after the discovery that her 7-year-old daughter kept a diary in which she noted when she was forced to have sex with her mother's boyfriend.

The girl, who now lives in California with her father, also told investigators that while she lived in England, her mother allowed men she brought home to have sex with her.

Stacey Parnitzke, 40, and former boyfriend Shane Casey, 38, were arrested Friday in Vermont. They could get life in prison if convicted. Each pleaded not guilty to the same charge.

The assaults allegedly occurred when the girl was between 7 and 9, according to court documents.

Vermont State Police Detective Lance Burnham said he had never seen such a case.

"With these cases, when they deal with children, you have the truest definition of a victim," Burnham said. "This child could not have fought back. She was unable to do so. She was totally at the mercy of these two individuals."

A lawyer for Parnitzke and Casey did not return a call Tuesday seeking comment.

Burnham said Parnitzke was born in England but was a permanent resident of the United States. Parnitzke and her daughter moved to Vermont in 2004, but Parnitzke sent the girl to live with her father in 2006.

The father went to police in October after the 11-year-old girl told him that while living in England, Parnitzke would bring men home from Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and let them rape her beginning when she was 5.

Read more:http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/75915/news/world/girl-kept-detailed...

AA members Stacey Parnitzke, 40, and former boyfriend Shane Casey, 38 have been in jail and court since their arrest.....

"Sex slave trial resumes with 1 defendant" February 4, 2011 http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=13969057

"Guilty verdicts in child sex slave case" April 27, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12383357

"Jury deliberates whether adults used girl as sex slave" April 26, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12373387

"Couple on trial for sex assault on girl" April 19, 2010 http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=12337687

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

massive's picture

Decon- very good point. AA members are really weird...

There was a judge recently who sent a priest to jail for the cover up of pedophile priests. He complained " I did nothing" " he said , You are giving me more then those who committed the acts. "

The Judge didn't take his crap and sent his ass to jail. It was on NPR this morning. I will try to find the link and more info.

Massive

JR Harris's picture

Msgr. Lynn sentenced to three to six years in prison

By John P. Martin and Joseph A. Slobodzian
INQUIRER STAFF WRITERS Tue, Jul. 24, 2012, 5:39 AM

Defense attorney Jeff Lindy, representing Monsignor William Lynn, speaks with the media outside the Criminal Justice Center in Philadelphia on Thursday morning, July 5, 2012. A brief hearing was held before the judge to request Lynn be released from prison until sentencing. Lynn was found guilty of one count of child endangerment for covering up alleged abused by Catholic priests. (Alejandro A. Alvarez / Staff Photographer)
Defense attorney Jeff Lindy, representing Monsignor William Lynn, speaks with the media outside the Criminal Justice Center in Philadelphia on Thursday morning, July 5, 2012. A brief hearing was held before the judge to request Lynn be released from prison until sentencing. Lynn was found guilty of one count of child endangerment for covering up alleged abused by Catholic priests. (Alejandro A. Alvarez / Staff Photographer)

Msgr. William J. Lynn was sentenced to 3 to 6 years in state prison Tuesday by a judge who said he turned a blind eye while "monsters in clerical garb" sexually abused children, devastating families and shaking the Catholic church across Philadelphia and beyond.

Common Pleas Court Judge M. Teresa Sarmina said she believed Lynn was once the kind and selfless parish priest that his suppporters so passionately described. But as the aide Cardinal Anthony J. Bevilacqua tapped to investigate clergy-sex abuse, Lynn instead chose to protect the church over victims, she said.

Read More: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20120724_Lynne_scheduled_for_...

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

Massive
Monsignor William Lynn was sentenced to 3-6 years today for covering up the sexual abuse of one of his priests for years. Lynn actually hid the reports of the priest's abuses in a safe! And he was crying like a bitch today in court & saying he was only doing what he was obligated to do according to the church. Some days are a good day for justice & today was one of those days. Maybe Lynn & Sandusky will be cell mates in the same prison in Pennsylvania.

patti

Clara's picture

But until two years ago, you liked AA and the people in it for 35 years. I just don't get it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

live_free_or_die's picture

CLar, but AA has so many of the characteristics of a cult that one might conclude that AA is, indeed, a cult.

Do you recall Jonestown CLar? Have you figured that out yet?
Do you recall Heaven's Gate CLar? Have you figured that out yet?

Here >> "Drawing on scores of publications penned since the 1940s about AA as a cult, two notably balanced recent academic contributions were L. Allen Ragels’ Is Alcoholics Anonymous a Cult? An Old Question Revisited and Jeffrey A. Schaler’s Cult-Busting. Both authors found AA to be a cult, having used as a main reference the modern definitive work of its genre, Francesca Alexander and Michele Rollins’ 1984 project, Alcoholics Anonymous: The Unseen Cult. Alexander and Rollins were sociologists who had infiltrated AA under cover to investigate cult practices. They measured AA against criteria developed by Robert J. Lifton. His 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism, based on his research of the Communist “re-education” programs of Mao Tse-tung,is a classic work on brainwashing. Alexander and Rollins concluded that, “On the basis of this study, the authors contend that AA uses all the methods of brain washing, which are also the methods used by cults. It is our contention that AA is a cult.” (Alexander & Rollins.) They found that AA’s established cult criteria characteristics include sacred science, mystical manipulation, sacred texts, chants and rituals, demand for confession and purity, milieu control, love-bombing and family substitution, loaded language and parallel “thought reform” mind control techniques to those used in Red China."

To voluntarily disfellowship oneself from the AA cult is an act of empowerment.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Clara's picture

It's not beyond my understanding, LF. I just disagree that it is a cult or that I don't have the free will to go or to stay.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

live_free_or_die's picture

Well CLar, in your post you said, I just don't get it.

It is fact that some in this world see Alcoholics Anonymous as a cult. It doesn't really matter if you see it as a cult, although I am sorry you are a practicing AA member. More poweer to ya.

If someone sees through the AA sham and leaves, who are you to even question the person leaving AA?
It is a personal choice. And if someone decides to speak out against AA, so be it.

Now, the free will question you will need to take up with soberman.

Don't drink, do as you please?

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

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