Honesty

Gunthar2000's picture
Submitted by Gunthar2000 on Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:13

I remember, after many meetings, AA members would come up to me and say, "wow! That was really honest." It wasn't long before I learned that, in order to fit into the flock, I must make confessions before the group and publicly flog myself.
I always felt alone in that AA crowd. I guess I could say that I never made a single real friend within the AA circles... just people like my sponsor, whom I learned to depend on.
And honesty... what is it really? Is honesty regurgitating AA's bullshit slogans over and over again? Or is honesty the propensity to allow others to re-write your history for you? I guess I played a part in this one, after all, it was me who allowed them to make me believe I was something I was not. I should have known better. I should have known that I am not a liar, cheat, and thief, but still I said that I was all of these, just to fit in.
So in being "honest," I was actually very dishonest, both to myself and the people around me. We were all doing it I guess. AA is like a moshpit of mental self-mutilation.

Comments

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:30

Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past.
Don't dwell on the past, learn from it. You can't change the past but you can learn from it. Those who don't remember the past are destined to repeat it.
Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment.

disclosure

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:59

I will learn from the past, this is OK.
I will dream of the future.
I will plan for the future.
I will take action to build my future.

Live in the moment is a thought stopping derailment in my opinion.

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:40

many times with the only thing in common is a learned praising of bill wilson and his goofy ideas.

In reality it is a huge waste of time and effort.

The real danger comes from the fact that drunks and druggies die, alot. This 'program' really has nothing of substance to help them or change their behavior. You were fortunate to find your way out before you died.

Many did not.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 18:49

DeConstructor says: "Many did not." Must be a lot of bodies stacked like cordwood in church basements.

disclosure

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:04

I know 5 who died, all cremated.
How many do you know who died alkieanon?
If it's zero you don’t have much time in the program.
If you do know some who died, how do you rationalize their deaths and marginalize them with church basement humor?

becket's picture

becket

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:44

I know one, and he committed suicide because he lost his wife, not because AA betrayed him.

I went into AA in 1980. Is that long enough?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 05:16

disclosure meet DeConstructor. First things first, moi did not bring up the "morbid" topic. Got a beef? Take it up with the original post commenter, DeConstructor.

alkieanon's picture

alkieanon

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 05:23

disclosure asks: "How many do you know who died alkieanon?"
Of what? Alcoholism? Zero. Sober? More than zero.
Of other diseases, illnesses, or causes? More than zero.
disclosure says: "If it's zero you don’t have much time in the program." Actually, if it's zero you don’t have much time in life.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:16

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:11

FTF,
I had the same problem in the rooms. I just did not have the character defects I was told I had by AA members. When I would be truthful & say "well being selfish & immoral just aren't problems of mine & I drink excessively due to to pain & grief & loss" & I was told over & over that I wasn't being "honest". I never believed that billshit although my sponsor & other AA members nagged & harassed me endlessly for the AA anecdotal psychology & addict personality to be my truth. AA & its members are just crazy like Wilson. Something you didn't mention regarding Wilson. It is evident Wilson was severely mentally ill & he & those exposed to him suffered due to his narcissistic personality disorder & clinical depression. Narcissists are dangerous people to be exposed to & Wilson continues to endanger people via his insanity cult AA. Please remember that Wilson was completely & dangerously selfish & insane. And this is who you advise that people with life threatening problems listen to & follow. That's a huge responsibility you somehow feel qualified to practice. Of course with typical stepper selfish deflection you won't own up to any person who is harmed by attending AA due to your anecdotal advise. It will be their fault if they attend AA on your advise & then chose death over being taught they have an incurable & progressive fatal disease & that their future is death, jails or institutions when no matter how hard they pray & turn their life's over to a higher power they still can't stop their addiction. Why not just check out if your higher power or God won't listen to your prayers to quit & doesn't step in & take over after you've willing handed over your powerlessness & will. Time to check out or its death anyway or even worse jail or institutions. Please try to have some conscience & morality regarding promoting & advertising & stalking for Wilson & AA.

patti

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:17

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:58

Really First-Things-First you are going by the play book of the cult of Alcoholics Anonymous. The next thing you are going to use is the "it's your choice" AA loophole defense without even knowing if any other meetings are available in the same geographical area or time constraints of the target "prospect" for Alcoholics Anonymous!

For more information on these tactics, see "The Alcoholics Anonymous Prospect Hunting Instructions - Direct from the Interchurch Center in New York" - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1629

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:17

disclosure

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:17

A: Because it is deceptive. By comparing a group of people to cars it is easy to make a point that minimalizes the impact of the truth.
Example: By converting people to cars many characteristics of human behavior can be ignored, this is a variety of anthropomorphism.
If the point were made in plain language without metaphors, it would easily be defeated with a logical statement such as:

Everyone in AA has some life problem that has driven them there for support. Many are sent there by the courts or hospitals. Based on this fundamental fact, the likelihood a person attending AA will be exposed to criminal or mentally ill types is very high.

Meetings are groups of people. Just because they all ended up in AA doesn’t mean they are all the same. There are some meetings with high functioning people and some with low functioning people. You gotta shop around. Different places and people will attract different crowds.
See that doesn’t sound as good or convincing.

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:17

This is your response to my post regarding Wilson & AA's dangerous insanity?!? That meetings are like cars & you just have to shop around? Really? This is your sincerity. Wow are you shallow & your deflecting is as shallow & empty as Wilson's narcissistic & heartless soul & being & the insane & dangerous cult that is his legacy. Emptiness & ugliness equals AA stepper & Wilson follower & brain washed cult follower.

patti

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:17

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:35

You completely ignored the information regarding Wilson's obvious mental illness & the immoral & selfish addict he describes is a self description which he projected onto others due to his narcissistic selfishness & shallow & cold & cruel being. Wilson was a sociopath & had no conscience or regard or respect for any other human being he had exposure & interaction with. Wilson threw everybody under the bus all the time to get what he WANTED for his selfish needs. Wilson's ego was so huge & his mental health so warped he felt entitled to use others including an elderly widow who he scammed & manipulated to sell him her home for way below market value. Wilson was reprehensible & a complete scumbag manipulator & user. And this is who you "suggest" that others follow. Regarding AA attendees suicides, when AA & faith healing do not work over 95% of the time & God or an HP just doesn't step in & take over an addicts life regardless of how much they are willing to be powerless & turn their wills & life's over to an HP or God & they work & work & work the steps but they just keep on using, when this happens over & over in AA how can you blame the attendee who tries & tries & prays & prays & works the program to a T & relentlessly but still keeps drinking excessively? How do you explain that it is the addict who is failing & not the faith healing AA spiritual method to quit an addiction? How is this somehow the addicts fault & not AA's miserable failure? How does my response to your deflecting & your mocking the people on this forum & the dead addicts failed & frightened figuratively to death somehow make me shallow? I don't expect any "honest" or straight answers from you because that is the AA cult member persona deflect & do not answer logical questions with logical answers.

patti

Calinda (not verified)

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 15:41

Patti, can you honestly say that you have never had immoral acts in your life, suffered from a mental imbalance due to your addictions or had behavioral issues. I would think since we are in the year 2012 that your treatment would be far superior then Bill's in 1934. Give us a break.

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 15:51

You cant escape yourself... You're personality follows you like a shadow.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

Calinda (not verified)

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 08:46

I appreciate your correction Gunthar. But it is not my personality that follows me in this instance, it is my grammatical errors that do. Which I really can't be faulted for because most of the time I use a IPad, if you have ever used a iPad or IPhone you would know they choose the words for you at times. Sometimes I pay close attention and sometimes I don't.
Gunthy, thanks for thinking I am Danny, this would be a compliment. This would be some big shoes to fill.

Conan's picture

Conan

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 08:52

No sooner does Trisha K get banned than Calinda starts appearing daily. You hit every branch on the way down when you fell out of the stupid tree Danny. It'a "an iPad" by the way. Ijjit.

Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol

Calinda (not verified)

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 09:04

So happy that you can bone up on your insults, Ben. I happen to be a good friend of Trisha's and don't mind filling in during her banning.
I noticed you came back yourself. I see you enjoy Conan. I personally think he is an idiot but hey, each to his own. I like Craig Ferguson w/ Geoff his gay robot. I have always had a fondness for the Scott's.

Conan's picture

Conan

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 09:13

And it doesn't work any more. You are the dumbest of dumb fuck faggots Bennison.

Danny is currently "Rachel" - watch out folks, he's learned how to use a spell checker...lol

Calinda (not verified)

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 09:23

Is this supposed to mean something to me, BenWayne....Lmao. I have no idea what the hell you are trying to say. I get the Bennison reference but this other thing. Please explain because I am missing the point.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:30

Yes, all meetings are slightly different. I thought of it more like them all being like fast food places. All slightly different, but none of them places you should ever be eating at.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:18

becket's picture

becket

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 11:50

"I just did not have the character defects I was told I had by AA members."

Wow. You are the alpha and the omega of arrogance.

Please contact Guinness Book of World Records to be included as the second* human being to be born, to live, to navigate the waters of life, without a single character defect. I will buy the first copy that includes your entry.

* That is, if you believe that stuff.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 23:13

Pattie said that she didn't have the character defects that they told her that she had. That isn't arrogance. Being arrogant might be her saying that she didn't have character defects at all, which wasn't the case. I feel the same as Patti does, they put shit on my shoulders that I didn't deserve. Topple that onto the character defects that actually were attributes of mine, I felt like the crap in a horses stall. It's not fair to put that on a person and when they don't want to admit it all, eating everything offered to have someone say, "well aren't you the arrogant one"?

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:40

If they told her she was a bitch on wheels and she denied it, she missed out on a great truth about herself.

OK, for the sake of what will undoubtedly result in an unresolved argument, let's hear what the character defects were that AA "assigned" to patti. Let's see if she exhibits any of those today. I sincerely doubt that patti was claiming, "AA said I had x, y and z character defects, but they were wrong. I actually had a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h . . . character defects." Is this what you mean, avogadno?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 18:35

Actually, in a sense that is what I was saying. At least that is what I was claiming about myself. It's like being on trial for crimes that you didn't commit. While the DA (AA) question you about your history, and you claim some is true, they convict you of other crimes just because you drink/drug. It's ridiculous to think that all alkies are self absorbed egoists and liars. Incapable of being honest and all that, blah yadda yadda. It's a head game.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 05:24

Very Original First-Things-First, do you need a rehab reboot? Normally people brainwashed into the Alcoholics Anonymous faith only repeat meaningless statements over and over that are AA slogans or scripture. But you have overloaded your brain and made up your own and repeated this "thing" about 10-15 times on multiple threads. Either quit Alcoholics Anonymous or turn yourself into the next Hazelden security guard for immediate debriefing and reprogramming.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:18

DeConstructor's picture

DeConstructor

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:07

Here is some thinking about overcoming an 'addiction' that is even more twisted than the steptards.

http://mormonthink.com/QUOTES/masturbation.htm

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:42

"The only truly safe places for a 'recovered' drunk is a real estate office or a beach volleyball court.

Idiots!"

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

disclosure

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:53

I always thought it was an exploitation of conscience. If I had done something dishonest or that could have jeopardized my program, I needed to tell on myself. I learned quickly that self sacrifice and depredation in AA could really help a person climb the ranks. Unfortunately I took AA thinking into my business and used honesty as well as turning it over to god inappropriately.
I guess I learned the hard way that the program’s costs exceed its benefit.
Thanks for the post G2K.
“Just for today” I will realize that the trolls and others in society are not being honest with me, I do not need to give them my mind or care what they think, “Just for today” I will keep my business in my head.
Funny thing is the rigorous honesty clause of AA is not something compatible with life.
I challenge anyone to tell me how rigorous honesty is healthy in any context.
Happy Birthday to you, stop.

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:22

Disclosure,
exactly if one takes that AA insanity outside of the rooms & applies it to real life they get eaten alive. Although they won't lose their jobs if they are in the construction unions especially roofing. But they will alienate any & all who get stuck listening to their preaching & lecturing of insane, anecdotal & unqualified psycho babble & "suggestions" & their brain washed stupidity. What is even more dangerous than ignorance is an illusion of intelligence & that sums up steppers, they are intelligent in their minds & the cult rooms only.

patti

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:18

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:28

who was preaching to all of us about hatred?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

patti

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:40

What in goodness sakes are you babbling on about now? Whats all this, then?

patti

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:44

Rigorous honesty does not mean abandon all life skills. Just sayin.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

causeandeffect

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:58

Lying is a life skill? Well, I suppose.... if that's the kind of life you want...

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

becket

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 14:30

"disclosure
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 22:53
permalink
Honesty

"I always thought it was an exploitation of conscience. If I had done something dishonest or that could have jeopardized my program, I needed to tell on myself. I learned quickly that self sacrifice and depredation in AA could really help a person climb the ranks. Unfortunately I took AA thinking into my business and used honesty as well as turning it over to god inappropriately.
I guess I learned the hard way that the program’s costs exceed its benefit.
Thanks for the post G2K.
“Just for today” I will realize that the trolls and others in society are not being honest with me, I do not need to give them my mind or care what they think, “Just for today” I will keep my business in my head.
Funny thing is the rigorous honesty clause of AA is not something compatible with life.
I challenge anyone to tell me how rigorous honesty is healthy in any context.
Happy Birthday to you, stop."

Who is it that has developed lying as a life skill here, causeandeffect? If that's the kind of life disclosure wants, step back and let him have it.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:19

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:34

anyone who disagrees with the practices of your religious cult is using "closed and mindless thinking?"
That's what cult members do... they try to shut down anyone who challenges the beliefs of the cult.
Congratulations, your indoctrination is complete.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:19

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:47

There is no need for further investigation... I went into AA with an open mind and became fully indoctrinated long ago. I have 18 years of AA experience to base my opinions on. The conclusion I've come to is that AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism. AA causes more harm than good.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:19

Gunthar2000's picture

Gunthar2000

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 20:49

It must be diffiCULT for you to survive in a world of such varied opinions.

Does it really hurt?

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism.

Gunthar2000

http://www.expaa.org/

First-Things-First (not verified)

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 23:19

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:05

You seem new at the prospect hunting circuit First-Things-First, you should be going after the young ones that are easy to manipulate with your "Special Knowledge" and "Special language" you really shouldn't be going after the prospects that know your tactics of AA loophole defense.

May I suggest a place where you can be admired for your slogan knowledge? "Alcoholics Anonymous PROMOTION, not attraction at New Dorp High School Area 49 (SENY) Saturday July 14, 2012 Prospect Hunt" - http://orange-papers.org/forum/node/1881

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

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