Open question to Clara or Becket, and any other apologists

DeConstructor's picture
Submitted by DeConstructor on Thu, 06/21/2012 - 18:29

Is there ANYTHING you feel AA does improperly?

Comments

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:20

Gigi, you know who they are. So please quit with this parody that you don't know.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

JR Harris's picture

JR Harris

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:24

Ever feel like "A life gone Awry." Give it up Danny, you're not fooling anyone.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

gigi

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:25

I don't know what you're getting at. You have a vivid imagination.

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 05:01

"I guess I touched a nerve, NoAAUK??"

I don't smoke any more neither do I do drugs any more. I do drink however with precautions. One of my precautions is to unplug my internet hub, and put away my laptop before I go to the pub (HAMS does suggest that), so I am never anything other than stone cold sober when I am on the internet.

To drink responsibly, or totally abstain you have to take precautions and live by some rules, at least in the beginning………. not demand God does it for you

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 08:23

I don't drink, I don't go or listen to HAMS or any other program. I find it fucking totally insane to take a pill or take instruction from a program in order to drink, WTF. People who have no problem with drinking, don't even think about it, they just drink responsibly.
I can understand the school of thought that goes something like this. "When I started drinking there was great emotional and mental stress going on in my life, so I drank with reckless abandon to snuff out my feeling of despair. I did this for so long that I developed destructive behaviors. Consequently I needed to learn good behaviors again. Some people this whole experince lasted maybe 3-5 years and didn't really entail any hard drugs. But then again there are many where this experince lasted decades and did involve hard drugs. In this case, there were very real mental, emotional and physical consequences. Moderation is just not an option."
NoAAUK, I don't even really know you besides what you have posted on the internet. If you really want to drink that bad, go for it. I hope it works for you. In my case, there has been just to much wreckage, the people I love the most visited to much pain and suffering because of me. I have no interest in seeing if alcohol and or drugs can work moderately in my body again in this lifetime.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:09

But 30 years later... here you are, listening to the same stuff you heard 30 years ago.

Progress, not perfection.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 05:10

"But 30 years later... here you are, listening to the same stuff you heard 30 years ago."

You have to listen to the same stuff you heard thirty years ago, when you deal with steppers, even to oppose them. Steppers can't speak or write anything other than the same old stepper cult BS.

Never-ending repetition is part of the spiritual disease of steppism

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:17

Allman Brothers Band

Let your soul shine, brother.....:)

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:25

Trisha,
you are way out there!

patti

gigi

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:04

Little off-base and a bit inflamatory there Trish. What makes you say such things?

"If I forget who I am, I am myself. If I remember who I am, I am you."

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:23

Are you not in touch with your community??

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:19

This is kind of like a Munchausen manifesto, only feigning wellness instead of illness. I think teatotaler [sic] is unbalanced. If s/he is truly free s/he would have no need to visit multiple websites denigrating the thing from which s/he is "free".

You people are weird.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:26

Becket,
you are lying again! Not cool.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:06

I explicitly declared that my observation was an opinion, as in "I think". That's not a lie, patti. You of all people know the difference between sharing an idea and fabricating a reality for others to soak up and ratify.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 09:56

...wrong thread!

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:09

What is "serious headway"? How does one measure "headway"? Is it a metric thing?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:16

Paranoia. I don't view any of the efforts here as making serious headway, especially when there is a lot of flagwaving, but never any juice on the result. I mean, you never even reported back what the police told you... or the attorney. Apparently not even enough of a case to take on contigentcy basis. Anti shoud have been able to rush forward and give you suggestions based on her own experience that she claimed to have on this board. Never heard anything about the protest in Santa Monica other than there didn't seem to be any interest in passing out fliers.

Massive, do you really believe this stuff?

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

becket's picture

becket

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 16:06

You are a picture of paranoia. Most amusing.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

billybudd

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 06:52

shuck those that loathe it. Like perverse devotees, they promote their scorned idol. Leaving means never letting go.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:02

Live and let live. If you don't want to be in AA, whose making you? But I find all these people are just as shackled by AA now as they ever were. When I do read their stories on other sites, AA still isn't to blame for their malconent. Especially one woman in particular.

I was taken aback by her story because I felt the same way at 18. It just took me decades to get into AA. But she met a man on the beach in Hawaii. He was in AA so she went to even though she had already stopped drinking. So a MAN was there reason she started to go, not a feeling that she both eneded and wanted help for an alcohol problem? Then she gives a newcomer (better known as a person she knows little or nothing about) a huge sum of money for the time (and her age), and he makes off with it. Her sponsor asked her what she was thinking? But somehow it is AA's fault that she lost her money, not a lapse on judgment on her part.

With the exception of the membership in AA, I did those same things at that age. I did those things at older ages than she had been. I don't see how as an adult you can't see it the only way it can be viewed. You don't give money to anyone you know nothing about, and it doesn't matter if you met him at church, a bar, at work, or you just started dating him. If you are joining some club because you are interested in someone that already goes (I did that, too), there is something questionable about that. Hell, I belong to the gun club because of my husband's interest. I don't shoot guns, but you cannot be on the propery without membership, so there you have it.

Some things are just choices and decisions you make for reasons ony you understand.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 19:47

.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:05

I don't think it is p/a at all. I saw so much of myself if that, and the sole difference is she was lucky enough or smart enough to grab the bull by the horns at 18 because I was certainly in trouble even then. I was in my forties before I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. So what happened by then?

Well, I lost my childbearing years. I made poor choices in the men I allowed into my life. I made poor financial decisions. I never married, which was fine because I would have been one of those many times divorced women you see in the rooms. How much more productive do you think that time could have been if I had found AA at 18?

So, you can see it your way, PIE but I choose to see the glass as half full. It shows me a few things... It doesn't matter if you are on the same side as AA. It doesn't matter if you even like another person. You might still be able to relate if you remain openminded and teachable.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Pennywise's picture

Pennywise

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 15:01

but I choose to see the glass as half full.

Of sherry?

Edit: just kidding. I see you are trying to be serious here.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 21:53

LOL! Be cautious. Dammitt and Dorak loathe this type of converse...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 22:08

Clara, what kind of conversation do they loathe?

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 07:01

About crab soup! Surely you've read that, PIE!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

dandammit's picture

dandammit

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 07:51

I noticed that the cum trees are blooming and in season while jogging this morning.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 08:53

Nice one, Dan!

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

avogadno's picture

avogadno

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 22:09

where did that comment come from all of a sudden?

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 19:48

.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 21:47

That's fine, my dear. I don't know how it is served in your area, but you can look up the recipes and you'll see that most mention it. I had the loveliest bisque in Maine when we rode to Canada. Was it indicated on the menu how they serve it? If you remember, one of the best places in Annapolis serves it just as I described.

It's not justification at all. Just the reality. I wish had had gotten the gift of desperation at 18 instead of so much later. LLooking back, I was in trouble even then.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 19:48

.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 07:03

I guess it makes sense. After all, where is Annapolis?

Ah, the French... I am sure he has had many a dish that had condiment splashes in them... Lobster Normandy is a dish I love, but you rarely see it around...

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 19:49

.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 22:03

Good for you, PIE. You can see it however you like.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

Persephone In Exile's picture

Persephone In Exile

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 08:38

Yes, I believe I can. I see, for example, the SIOA as a hate group. But then, I'm not alone in that view.

http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/

Trisha K.'s picture

Trisha K.

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:19

How about a level playing field, PIE.

“The more I traveled the more I realized that fear makes strangers of people who should be friends.”
Shirley MacLaine

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:31

Clara,
right back @ you. Live & let live. Let Massive feel the way she feels. It is only in the rooms where you can "suggest" to others how to feel. Live & let live. Let the ex members on this forum feel the way they feel whether you approve or not. it doesn't matter how you feel about what others here feel. It doesn't matter if you judge or do not approve. Other peoples feelings are not about what works for you. Wow, do you really feel that belonging to a gun club is comparable to a cult like AA? Does anyone @ the gun club "suggest" to other members how to feel & think or what to do all the time about any & every thing? I doubt it.

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:06

Good lord, where ISN'T it live and let live, Patti? No one suggested anything but perhaps some common ground.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 18:55

Clara,
come on, try to be truthful. you were not live & let live. you are passive aggressively dissing Massive. if Massive wants to be anti AA due to its failure as a rehab method, less than 5%, for its abuse ripe unhealthy & unqualified psychiatry, let her! AA is the perfect environment for predators, a sad & ugly truth.

patti

becket's picture

becket

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 20:40

"Let Massive feel the way she feels. It is only in the rooms where you can "suggest" to others how to feel."

This is unadulterated horseshit. Oh, Massive can feel whatever she wants, but your claim about meetings being the only place where suggestions are made as to how one should feel is absolute crap. Do you live in this world? Do you ever leave your bunker? Jesus.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

SPK77's picture

SPK77

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 08:09

AA is filled with desperation. People at the end of their rope. It is impossible to not be forever changed from our experience within and around the cult. I live in a city of around 100,000 people, how many AA's do you think leave or even ask the important questions about the deranged dogma pushed upon the helpless and desperate? I was in recent meeting where an old timer was asking where all of the people went and asking if it possible to give more than dollar. Hmmm, I wonder why no one is attending meetings anymore? Most people, are only generally aware of AA as the only means to recovery. That's why when they come to one meeting and meet all the old loons and are approached by the group "GURU's" they leave never to be seen again. I was defeated enough to endure anything in my initial sobriety--even insane people giving me advice. When I started asking real questions, the Enlightened Ones soon distanced themselves due to the fact they had no rational answers. But the truth is, I still don't have them. I just don't want to drink anymore or end up an insane old-timer preying on and lying to newcomers.

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 10:16

Why is that a problem, SPK? For decades, the amount people put in 7th tradition baskets was a dollar. things cost a lot more now, wouldn't you say? At least wenty years ago, there was a poster made up that went into all the Alano Club that showed the cost of increases and suggested 2.00 from those" that could well afford it." If you've been restored from a drunk that lived under a bridge to a working person, what is 2.00 per meeting?

I don't get "no one attends meetings" because the ones we go to are full. If people think that AA is the only means to recovery, then that indicates they haven't read the marterial because AA doesn't think that way and never has. it may just be that it was the only thing that worked for that person.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

NoAAUK's picture

NoAAUK

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:10

"then that indicates they haven't read the marterial because AA doesn't think that way and never has."

Keep lying.....lying stepper. It won't stop the decline of your deviant death cult. The people whom this website is intended for have already been told that "AA is the only way and if you leave, its jails institutions and death." You have no argument with the Anti AA movement. All your posts ever show is what a delusional bunch of self-obsessed liars you stepper old time gurus are. You just prove what we say every time you open your mouths or touch your keyboards.

." If you've been restored from a drunk that lived under a bridge to a working person, what is 2.00 per meeting?"

How many times have stepper gurus told newcomers NOT to find a job, it will interfere with their sobriety. Come on deny it.......lie again Pinocchio. I’d like to have £1 for every inch your nose grows at a stepper meeting..........I’d be a very rich man

......and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Matthew 24:11

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 11:17

No NoAAK, no one is lying. It is sprinkle all over the literature that AA is not the ony path to sobriety.

Why am I Pinocchio because my experience is different than yours? Beleive me, I didn't know anyone in Myrtle Beach that would turn down legitimate employment if they could find it. Distraction is often a solution to not drinking.

You'd be a richer man if you had a sponsor like mine.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 13:33

The meetings where you go are full. Full of what though? How many of the people attending are there voluntarily? How many of the people there are forced to attend? How many people that are there are the core group who belong more than a few weeks, months or less than a year?

patti

Clara's picture

Clara

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:07

Yes, voluntarily. Most of what you say on these board don't even met the sniff test. In MB, we had a huge core of lonterm sobriety.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

patti

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 00:05

The room is full how many people fill the room? How many long term in mb? Ball park figure s?

patti

SPK77's picture

SPK77

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 08:12

I know there are no meetings in my area for people recovering from 12 step indoctrination...where do you all find support?

live_free_or_die's picture

live_free_or_die

Fri, 06/22/2012 - 14:47

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html
http://cultresearch.org/2012/03/presentation-at-survivors-of-institution...
http://leavingaa.com/

Just some ideas.

Alcoholics Anonymous: MyNotGodHasItCovered®
http://www.expaa.org/
http://bereanresearch.com/
http://badrecovery.blogspot.com/
NOT AA:
Rational Recovery, SOS, HAMS
http://alcoholabusesolutions.com/

Pages