“Oh, I get that craving. I’ve been there. This is how I recovered/abstained.”

C&E said yesterday about something that pisses her off. Well the topic of the blog that I am starting today is something that pisses ME off. Well actually it was the entire article/advertisement, one for a treatment facility and 12 step groups, that got me going. It is one of the more blatant ones I have seen actually. Most do not mention outright that their go-to recovery model is 12-step. There is usually an * at some point or an innuendo that makes it clear to those experienced with stepping that it is the model they use. The first line actually sums up what their enormous fees are paying for:

The Landing introduces all of our clients to 12 Step programs.

The Landing in Southern California jumps right out and plays a trick, that \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"12 step programs are proven to greatly assist clients\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". First of all, where is the proof? Secondly, it slyly suggests that 12 step is proven to assist addicts outside of rehab as well, something we know is a lie.

Perhaps in the Landing facility cravings are discussed and advice is offered in meetings but I never saw this. Not one time in 5 years of meetings did I hear anyone share how they dealt with a craving, besides more meetings, more prayer, and more big book study.

As a matter of fact, discussing logical approaches to deal with the monkey were frowned upon. They just didn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t think that anyone in a substance abuse support group had any right to offer THAT kind of logical advice. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"We are not professionals\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Getting intellectual on us?\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" and the absolute most ambiguous remark I heard was \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"Outside issue!\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\". In my opinion this is exactly the kind of information that they did have knowledge about and the absolute only thing that should be shared as far as advice was concerned.

The impression that normies in society have, that step groups are lean on, \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"fundamental\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\", supportive \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"niche\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" groups of people that share understanding, come from advertisements such as this one. I read a LOT about rehabilitation approaches and have never seen one that is affiliated with the AA approach come forth with any hint of how the program really works.

How does AA “work”?

There is no fundamental or logical basis to AA “support”. All members are instructed to have faith. Faith in any entity other than themselves. The pressure to succumb to the religious exercises of AA are so enormous that new or reluctant members are actually told that they will die, end up in an institution, or drink forever if they don’t participate. This threat, or approach – ahem, is adverse to the expectations of new recruits and completely opposite to societal views. This collective misinterpretation is not due to the oversight and/or gullibility of our society. It is intentional deceptive recruiting tactics used by XA’s, those in support, and the promotional strategy of advertisement such as this one, that get the sick and vulnerable in the door and relenting to group coercion.

http://www.soberlanding.com/tag/alcoholics-anonymous

Comments

JR Harris's picture

Take the slogan route of the occultist Bill Wilson and find another meeting.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

Not on your life.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

Exactly who is forcing you to be here? You expect to assassinate others, yet to be untouchable yourself. Real life doesn\'t work that way.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Clara's picture

Because I enjoy blogging and learning new things. It would probably amaze you to know that I can do both. I can\'t understand why an exercise that isn\'t even limited to AA is such aproblem. Most of what we talk about on these boards could be found in any number of books in the self-help aisle.

But life isn\'t limited to this blog. I also met with Mexican landscapers, went to a ladies meeting, went to lunch afterward as one of the girls is moving to Columbia, SC to take a job, took Skeeter to the dog park, bought ingredients for skincare to make tonight since my husband is installing a new system, and I sold some stock and made some money. I also filled out Skeeter\'s adoption application for the woman that spent three hours here yesterday doing a home visit. The house is clean, the laundry is done, and it is only Monday!

So, yes, life is possible even if I post!

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

dorak nob's picture

right on Avo , really precise and to the point

becket's picture

\\\"Quit promoting the Bill-shit, not one person here wants to hear how wonderful it was for you seeing that we know how it nearly killed others. \\\"

Nearly killed.

Nearly.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

DeConstructor's picture

from the recovery industry is for ease of denial of religious indoctrination. The AA faith is the umbilical cord of the recovery industry. The are truly one entity, with the for profit business arm of the AA faith using AA theology in over 90% of US rehabs.

By articially distancing itself from the AA faith, the recovery industry can bilk insurance carriers, and convince judges to enforce Marchman/5150 incarceration on people the industry deems diseased.

becket's picture

And the placenta is . . . ?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

Great stuff Avo! Trading sins for sobriety, love it. There is no evidence whatsoever that a confession will cleanse your spirit, lift your burden, provide a fresh start or lighten your cravings. I have done several 5th steps and listened to at least 20 of em. Every time me or the other person felt uncomfortable or felt like shit.

becket's picture

Actually, msafrany, there is no evidence whatsoever that a confession will cleanse YOUR spirit, lift YOUR burden, provide a fresh start for YOU or lighten YOUR cravings.

You have no idea if, when or how confession, admission or disclosure work for other people unless they tell you. So your pool of evidence is, in the grand scheme of things, insignificant. Yours is a judgment based on anecdotal information (admissions in and of themselves, interestingly), provided by the number of people you have discussed the topic with. Do you claim to speak for all of humanity when you say confession does not have any impact on the person confessing or the person hearing the confession?

Boundless arrogance. *surprise!*

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

Can you provide ANY evidence that confession does \"cleanse YOUR spirit, lift YOUR burden, provide a fresh start for YOU or lighten YOUR cravings?\"

It seems that if it actually did these things, AA wouldn\'t have such a bad failure rate.

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

Yes. Ask anyone who believes it, because this experience is totally subjective and not subject to measurement by a graph, a pie chart or a meta study.

msafrany does not speak for everyone. He speaks for himself. As do I. I don\'t necessarily believe confession within the context of AA is the optimal method of baring one\'s soul. There is too much opportunity for breach of anonymity because drunks are drunks and human beings are human beings. Too much information in the wrong hands is just plain STOOPID. But our resident genius, Mr. Safrany, belligerently implies that he has the inside track on ALL confession and that his is the last word.

It is not.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

causeandeffect's picture

But if it really works as advertised, shouldn\'t it show on a graph, pie chart, or meta study?

Troll free AA critical forum
http://www.expaa.org/

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

becket's picture

\" . . . as advertised\"?

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

\\\\\\\"Do you claim to speak for all of humanity when you say confession does not have any impact on the person confessing or the person hearing the confession?\\\\\\\"

Er, no. Have I claimed otherwise?

\\\\\\\"Yours is a judgment based on anecdotal information (admissions in and of themselves, interestingly), provided by the number of people you have discussed the topic with\\\\\\\".

You are very quick. Have I claimed otherwise?

\\\\\\\"You have no idea if, when or how confession, admission or disclosure work for other people unless they tell you\\\\\\\".

Obviously. Have I claimed otherwise?

\\\"Mr. Safrany, belligerently implies that he has the inside track on ALL confession and that his is the last word\\\".

Er.. where did I claim this?

\\\\\\\"Boundless arrogance. *surprise!*\\\\\\\"

Er...ok. Still Bat Shit Crazy. And pretty stooped too.

\"He speaks for himself. As do I.\"

Sounds like you speak for me.

Clara's picture

I think making peace with your past is a good thing, however you do it. I don\'t think an audience is necessary, though.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

JR Harris's picture

One way to gain credibility is to not lie about having a masters degree in criminal justice in an attempt to coerce people to chant Bill Wilson in weird rituals in church basements. The ends of lying do not justify the means, they only add to the confusion of the 12 Step process that has infiltrated the so-called recovery mentality. If you lie in a group setting you should be called for it and through the concept of humility you should just leave. In the slogan common in the cult of Bill Wilson, find another meeting.

Exposing the lies of AA members, one member at a time. Shame on you.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

How openminded! How non-judgmental!

How misinformed. Keep chipping away at the glass, JR Harris. One day you will belong.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

JR Harris's picture

The lies are very obvious and documented. It is a simple solution, QUIT LYING.

Exposing the lies of AA members, one lie at a time.

"Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the AA name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Please follow orders from the Interchurch Center if you are an AA member and don't comment.

becket's picture

I\'m not gonna do your hatchet job, JR Harris. You do it yourself.

Revealing the lameness of harrises, one guffaw at a time.

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

The point is that the soul cleansing process is not necessary to achieve sobriety or recover from substance abuse, and it is not proven to help either. However it has been proven to be a method used by cultists to gain control over members. History has shown this. It is also found as a tool in many religious exercises, as a purifying cycle before or during a presentation of ones self to a God. This is one of the highly suspicious reasoning as to why AA can be defined as a religious cult.

It might be a good idea for people to make peace with the past at some point in their lives. It could also be that people are only scratching off some scabs and opening up old wounds to possible infection. Once their opened up it can be to late to try and close them up again real quick before damage is done.

To recap: Step work, specifically the 4th and 5th:
1) Is not necessary to achieve sobriety.
2) Is not proven as a healthy or successful approach in achieving sobriety.
3) Is a method proven to be used by cultists and religions to gain control over inductees.

Take into consideration the harmful effects the process can have on already emotionally struggling individuals and the deceptive ways in which addicts get pushed to participate, it\'s reasonable that there is an outcry against the program, the members, and those in support of it.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

becket's picture

Oh, the \"soul cleansing process is not necessary\"? Tell that to Marvin Gaye and Barry White and Aaron Neville and Curtis Mayfield and David Ruffin and Levi Stubbs and Irma Thomas and Betty Harris and Jerry Butler and Gene Chandler and Al Green and Allen Toussaint and Booker T. Jones . . .

“The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

avogadno's picture

is not necessary to achieve sobriety or recover from substance abuse.

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Clara's picture

Perhaps not for some. I know countless people that found relief from it.

Remember Christopher Stevens when you vote.

avogadno's picture

I\'m currently taking some good looks at my current self and past with a counselor. We had a plan though. I got some good clean time under my belt first and in case I got some cravings I was prepared to deal with them. I have also overcome most of my ptsd symptoms before attempting to opening up these doors.

I made a choice to do this too, I wasn\'t pressured. I also chose the time, and am doing it with a professional. A lot of AA\'s don\'t have this option and are led to believe that any alcoholic is suitable. They are also encouraged to do it again and again and every time they relapse.
udlic iockldr kyuuuuuuuuck

Pro Empowerment!
Truth about AA: http://orange-papers.org/menu1.html
Expose AA: http://www.expaa.org/

Persephone In Exile's picture

I\'m doing the same thing. Part of my problem in the first place was that I had very controlling and extremely critical family members. My \"character defects\" were, whether real or just the product of abusive gaslighting, always rather starkly in my face. And I\'m actually a very cheerful person by nature, but by a certain point all of that dragged me down and did play a role in my addiction, which was mainly me wallowing in the shame of the constant litany of my \"defects\". So, you can imagine what being told constantly once I did try to get \"help\" (though for a different problem) that I needed to study my faults, examine them, admit to them and submit even MORE to people who saw me as inherently faulty.

I normally wouldn\'t share that much in such a personal vein, and my upbringing was hardly what is normally considered \"abusive\", if anything it would be considered rather lucky and privileged. But my therapist sees it rather starkly (as do members of my immediate family) as having been highly emotionally abusive, and from that perspective the entire 12 step experience was a reinforcement of the idea that I was to be powerless and subjugated and that the wounds I wanted healed were instead to be constantly ripped open and have salt rubbed in them daily.

Or as my husband says, \"these people know just enough psychology to make them dangerous.\"

6 bloody beer binge rolmao

Brett

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