Measuring Success?

Studies into the effectiveness of the 12 Step Program all have the same problem. There is no universally accepted definition of what 'success' means when treating addiction.

The positive side of my brainwash experience..

it was discovering what AA is that led to me being the way i am now, and its a good place to be. and im really greatful for that,shit dont i sound like a "stepper" now! getting brainwashed into a cult religion at a hospital,operated by the state,at 20 years of age really opened my eyes..although it took another twenty years for that lesson to sink in. my brain is on fire

This Should be Interesting...

AA’s 12 Steps don’t teach you how to stop drinking and neither do their meetings! Part Three- by Rolf Ankermann “The Promises”

I talked about “How It works” in the last blog and today I’ll cover the other most common reading spouted out at meetings; THE PROMISES.

It starts like this;

“If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.”

Hazelden Meditation for the Day 9-21-14

This is just off the wall, coming from medical professionals:

Same Feeling

When I was in Al-Anon I experienced that same feeling that I did growing up Catholic - that there was something wrong with me because I just didn't get it. I did't believe in God and I didn't get feelings of awe or serenity when I contemplated God's greatness. And I didn't get anything out of confession...

Is AA's 13th step justice process fair or unchecked bias and lies?

anyone who does not see AAs 13th step justice process as prone to extreme bias and abuse is not thinking critically or ethically. its absolutely sickening to me to see that AAs 13th step witch hunts are supported by opf members rather than using real court system actions that have many safe guards against biased witch hunting hysteria. AAs 13th step justice mechanism is AAs creation - but opf members support AA's 13th step justice process wo question. its sickening just sickening. its not justice in any way shape or form.

Are These Threats?

I'm being followed around the web by someone who goes by the handles Alkieanon, NahantSailor, and now Emma Knutt on this forum.

For your information... My name is Todd and I live in Franklin Massachusetts. This person has my personal information and has been making veiled threats for months.

I've reported the incidents to Orange and I hope that he will take care of the problem soon.

Here are some screen shots of the threats...


Janus, why is acceptance so great? If we just accepted things as they were, wouldn't Americans be working 12 hour workdays 7 days a week? Wouldn't black South Africans with AIDS all be dead because they couldn't get antiretrovirals? Wouldn't women still be denied the right the vote?

Spiritual, Not Religious

I can't believe AA gets away with this and AA members, some of them atheists, actually believe it. It's so obvious that it's a religion. Not only do the AA faithful get angry if you say it's a religion, some will disparage other religions!

AA caused me to drink more.

I can't count the times I cracked another beer and said to myself, "I'm powerless over this disease and so I might as well go with the flow and drink."

I wonder how many people there are out there who never may find the information contained in the Orange-Papers or other sources of such information. I'll bet there are alot of them.

The Power of Stepper Troll Provocateurs

As I look at the ebb and flow of things in OPF, I have to admit that I stand in awe of the power exerted here by in-house stepper trolls.

Coroners' Reports

How many coroners' report list 'attending meetings' or 'working the 12 steps' as the cause of death? One of the myths on this forum is that AA kills people who would otherwise survive. Common causes of deaths are - drunk driving, violent assault by someone who is intoxicated, drug overdose (accidental or deliberate), liver failure etc. Even moderate alcohol consumption raises the risk of heart disease, cancer and dementia.

How Obamacare Is Killing AA’s Membership
someone commented this but it deserves to be top posted

It has finally happened , the recovery industry now has sugar rehab There is far more money in treating an in curable family disease than curing one. The crafty simply create a new disease, to sell old treatment. One must wonder what direction this will go.

OK - So I like Controvery!

Many who post on the forum have overcome alcohol/drug issues. Doesn't AA deserve credit for that? Even if you didn't get better until after you left AA, is it possible that happened because of exposure AA/12 steps.

AA’s 12 Steps don’t teach you how to stop drinking and neither to their meetings! Part Two- by Rolf Ankermann

So in Part One I lambasted AA’s idiotic custom and “suggestion” that people who haven’t drank in years, identify themselves as alcoholics every time they speak. Again, it all just adds to the powerless and diseased for life message.

Are people in AA happier?

Are people sober through AA actually happier than people who gain sobriety out of it? I ask because this seems to be one of their big argument for participation. Being unhappy in sobriety is the mark of a dry drunk. I asked by husband and he said that he met plenty of people in AA who didn't seem happy. But I guess they weren't working a good program. Heh heh.

Removing liberal arts from college?

Here is a good article I found. The author is spot on. Some people will say this is off topic, but the point about liberal arts being pretty much worthless is VERY germane to the subject of Steppism and the substance abuse treatment industry:

There’s something severely wrong with postsecondary education in the United States.

Where is my mind? where did everyone go? or am i gone?

did i hear an aa dead horse beating around here?

REEFER MADNESS a 1930s anti mJ propganda movie.. hA!..its a big stigma fail now.

a local rock station use to promote this midnight movie in the early 70s - as a joke/protest.
because i was very liberal thinking and thus quite inoculated to gov stigma/propaganda.
i saw my addiction struggle as a one of life's valuable transcendence experiences.
by my own account i am an esoteric shaman. who transformed dependence into inner freedom.
lost a union job but became an engineer because of the problems i overcame. other wise i probably would have sat on my union ass and never been forced to learn to achieve more difficult goals,

Anti AA click ad an anti AA click ad. I would say this movement has gained some maturity.

My last Alanon Meeting

My last Alanon Meeting

Yes I started attending with a bias. About 20 yrs after my spouse started AA. I was looking for two things:

1) reaffirm my thoughts
2) see where I was wrong.

I went to about 30 meetings in 20 days.

I must remain teachable?

What does that even mean?

God's Will/What Is/Reality - Going With The Flow

The idea sometimes mentioned in meetings that one can 'take back one's will' or 'do God's will' is based on a delusion. 'God's Will' is simply 'What Is' or 'Reality' for those who feel uncomfortable with the concept of a supernatural deity. Nothing exists that isn't God's Will/Reality, so any kind of battle against it is impossible.

Help! Gamblers Anonymous (GA) in Swindon, South West England needs help in finding prospects. Meeting numbers are down and they need more prospects! Something must be wrong!

Number of gamblers seeking help drops

First published 04:00 Tuesday 9 September 2014 in News by Barrie Hudson

THE Swindon branch of Gamblers Anonymous is reaching out to members old and new as numbers at the meetings fall.

The organisation uses mutual support and advice to help problem gamblers to break their compulsion.

Regular AA meetings to stay in touch with others

I have my own mind. Yes, I read the BB.. and even before reading the Orange Site, I had studied the history and listened to many of the original members who verify much of what you say. I think this is a wonderful site. It is sad that so many Regular AAs have to stick to their guns and not open their minds to the truth. \ But... for me, AA is still good to stay in touch with others who are staying sober. That's the end game for me.. staying sober. Now that I'm 17 years into this, people don't harrass me as much for speaking my mind. I always have. Also I enjoy the fellowship

How did Alcohol Anonymous Invent Christianity?

I will use the book “Jesus Interrupted “, written By Dr. Bart D Ehrman. Christianity is very much about the Big Book, playing the role of the Bible with, Bill Wilson, “Big Bill” playing a role of Jesus Christ. Most alcoholic Christians come from churches that preach the Bible, teach the Bible, and adhere to the Bible and so do alcoholics in AA teach the Big Book of AA, and adhere to the Big Book of AA’


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