I think it is wrong to assume something about somebody when you have so little to go on. I did not like Jim Battle's video, so what. And I am not big on bashing AA. I am for getting the truth out about AA and I think moast on the Forum would agree that Orange has done a very good job of doing that. There are others on the OPF that are doing things to get the word out. What I do not like is when this is made out to be some sort of Crusade. Everyone is entitled to do as they wish and this is an open forum. As for the Bible, to me it is a book and nothing more. I am familure with it.
Submitted by Rolf Ankermann on Wed, 12/04/2013 - 16:46
There’s been a lot of talk on the forum regarding this matter in regards to you know whom. Jim asked me to check out his videos and offer my analysis on just that, which I’ve done several times already. I’ve seen one of them so far and my take hasn’t changed. All I ask of people is to be upfront and transparent.
I would like to share a thought that arose from reading something Orange said in his essay titled "The Twelve Biggest Secrets of Alcoholics Anonymous". He said "The Twelve Steps do not work as a program of recovery from drug or alcohol problems." I agree.
I also agree with those who don't believe that Christianity works as a program of recovery from drug or alcohol problems." Why? Because The Bible does not teach Christians to use programs of recovery for these problems. Of course, they are free to do so if they choose. However The Bible says:
So what if we succeeded in 'taking down' aa? What could be the scientific approach?
I was thinking may be society could open clinics run by therapists and addictions counselors. They could run walk in group therapy a few times a day, open to the public, and have educational tools, and short term voluntary hospitalization available. The police would always be accessible etc.?
You know you are brainwashed when ... (fill in the blank).
I actually didn't know but I should have known that I was brainwashed. when I contemplated my "alcohol problem".
I hadn't had more than a dozen or so total drinks in over 10 years (I was involved with the programs of NA/NA because of an opiate addiction). However, I was practically convinced that I was also an alcoholic and feared that if I didn't attend meetings I would become a drunk. As silly as it sounds, I was really really worried that I would be overcome by powerlessness and start drinking uncontrollably.
Submitted by Rolf Ankermann on Tue, 12/03/2013 - 06:28
With everything that is going on on the forum as of late, I thought it would be an appropriate time to re-post a previous blog with a few revisions, most notably what was added in the title in parentheses along with my take on relgion.
Not that it's anybody's business but my own, I will however, state my view on religion because I believe in being transparent to a fault. That's why I put my name on everything I write and post. I'm a big boy and I take the good with the bad; the criticisms with the praise.
I was in an AA meeting when an old-timer came in and sat himself down and began to take over the meeting. First he began to lament the loss of the “old AA”. He demanded a show of hands – “Who has worked on their steps today”, as if it was the golden rule of sobriety to do so. He then went on to say that he had sponsored many and a number of them that had not faithfully worked the program had ended up committing suicide. Instead of feeling remorse at this he wore it as a badge of honour that he had endured this.
The only way we're going to clean it up is to do something. I've written to Orange (content below). If you care about this forum, I suggest you do the same.
Nov 29 at 10:22 AM
Whilst I have always agreed with your stance on not censoring people I do feel that a line has to be drawn somewhere. The Jim Battle/AntiDenial debacle is making a mockery out of the forum. It's become a series of self-pitying and unfairly judgmental posts that are turning other members away. Example :-
Submitted by catwalksintoabar on Mon, 12/02/2013 - 01:39
So, I had been deemed an aa "old-timer" at very young chronological age, and so when I first attended oa, I didn't mention my other 12-Step status. (I personally didn't think the one should have anything to do with the other -- but that was just me.)
There were 2 long-time aa women who turned oa's stuff into a religion. One looked like a curly-headed Shelly Duvall from "The Shining" and the other looked like Mama Cass.